A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast

Let’s Talk Mental Health

This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, May 3rd, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.

Lorilee Binstock  00:00:18 

Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is A Trauma Survivor Thrivers Podcast.

Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside Chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Lorilee Binstock. Everyone has an opportunity to hop on stage. And, actually, I'm hoping people like to would like to hop on stage and and ask any questions or just chat with me today,

but I do ask that everybody be respectful. I am your host, Lorilee Binstock.

So please, some you know, I would love for people to share in this conversation. I know while this is an interview format show, I did have a guest. However, I did receive a lot of backlash.

From so many people about this

I will not name this guest, but I did confirm that she was dealing with

some legal issues for alleged fraud and scamming people out of a lot of money.

But with that, and trying to respond to everyone who commented on my Facebook page, I felt there really needed to be a conversation around mental health and the realization

that you know, hurt people

hurt people. And I know I also received backlash. Like, why are you canceling this person?

And and I'll get to all of that.

But I do ask that, you know, people join me. It looks like I actually have hold on. Let me see if I can get Kelly up on the stage.

In it to invite them to speak. Cali is actually

my I don't know if you know how to get on stage, but I think there's a

button or something that can actually

allow you to come on stage.

No. I think I have you on stage.

Cali, do I have you?

So

if if Cali is able to speak,

she is actually my creative director for the magazine for so for anybody who checks out Authentic Insider Magazine

and who's commented how beautiful

how beautifully curated the pages are. It's actually all Kelly Benstock. I really, really everything

is is really from the contributors, all the beautiful

words and pages, the contributors and Kelly. So I do wanna say that. Kelly is done a lot to really beautify the magazine and and make it look legit. So

So, Kelly, thank you for that. Can I get you on?

Oh, I see that you should you be hearing something? Am I muted? That's my next question.

It should be.

Let me double check.

So I do wanna talk about mental health because, like I said, I've had a lot of people

come on

and comment about

why this person

should not come. And I was actually thinking, okay. I'm gonna actually invite this person to come on the show

and have her

you know, and in question her a little bit about this, not not to

be mean, but this is what I've been hearing. What will can you you wanna explain

yourself or you want to share your story, your side of the story.

The thing is she is I I there was an warrant out for her arrest last Tuesday.

So I don't think she could have joined anyways, but I've decided that there were so many people who were really upset about having this guest on

I felt that it just didn't fit the show. Right? This the show was called a trauma survivor,

Thrivers

Podcast. And

So most of my guests are people who are trauma survivors who are thriving.

And who are inspiring. And it just seemed like there was just a lot of animosity,

a lot of anger that was

surrounding

this guest. And and so I just didn't feel like having this person on would be helpful, but it did make me think, okay. We need to talk about mental health.

And there were a lot of people who were commenting

that they felt this person was such a compulsive liar that

they didn't believe that their trauma even existed.

While I'm I'm not

I'm not the person to make that decision,

or to judge that,

there is a

I I truly believe she's experienced some sort of trauma. Whether it's a trauma that she says she experience. I'm I'm not sure. I can't that's not my I'm not in that position

to make that call. I don't know her personally.

But I feel that

it's this this idea. Her people, her people,

people who've been traumatized,

oftentimes traumatize other people. That's why there's a generational trauma.

You know, my parents who

you know, I was traumatized by my parents. I'm in childhood sexual abuse survivor.

You know,

my my father sexually abused me as a child, my mother.

Well, she's wonderful, and we have a good relationship now.

You know, she she even admitted. I think I she told me when I was in college, I think I dealt with

postpartum depression.

And, you know, back then, nobody really knew much about if any anything about postpartum depression. And so

I forgave her that for that. I think she kind of there was this realization

our our relationship changed from there.

But

she still treated me

pretty badly growing up.

I felt neglected

by her.

And like I said, while that's not the case now, I did feel

neglected by her for the longest time. And

that has that caused me some issues. And and there was a point probably when I was in middle school,

I didn't know I was dealing with trauma,

but I realized that

I

I I

needed a community. I needed friends, and I didn't really have friends. I was often isolated as a child. But when I got into middle school, I knew that I wanted friends. And I felt like the only people who were kind of talking to me were the popular

the popular girls

And

I really,

really enjoyed,

like, being around them, but they were kind of mean. They were mean to other people, and I felt to be accepted within this group of people, I also needed to be

mean or I needed to be like them. And I was I I I'm so ashamed to say. I was a little bit of a bully.

Once I got into high school, I was bullied.

Then I'm like, oh, it

flipped the script. I'm this is this is happening to me, and this is this is pretty terrible.

So now I know what it feels like. Right? You just

I had things changed for me at that point.

However, I was still healing from my trauma. Actually, I wasn't healing it off. High school, I wasn't healing from my trauma. I didn't even know I had trauma.

I do wanna check-in. Do I have Kelly? Kelly, are you there? Are you available to chat?

I don't know. I'm still, like I feel like there were some new features added on

with Fireside.

And I'm hoping people can actually hear me right now.

Can people hear me?

I might be muted, actually.

No. I'm not.

Well, you know,

if we can get Kelly on oh, I see

speaker request.

Accept request.

Kelly, can you hear me?

 

Cali Binstock  00:08:36 

Yes.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:37 

Oh my goodness.

 

Cali Binstock  00:08:38 

Wait.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:39 

1. K. K. I can hear you.

 

Cali Binstock  00:08:39 

You can hear me.

Wow. Okay. Great.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:42 

Yes.

So, yes, this is this is Kelly.

She like I said earlier, she is the creative director for Authentic Insider Magazine. Reason why the pages are so beautifully curated.

 

Cali Binstock  00:08:49 

Hi.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:55 

That and, again, the create contributors

 

Cali Binstock  00:08:58 

Hello?

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:58 

are the ones who

really

bring the magazine to life. So, Kelly,

you know, we've talked about this, and so I'm talking about mental health, and I'm talking about bullying. And I talked about how I was

 

Cali Binstock  00:09:05 

Hi.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:13 

embarrassed to say I was a bully

when I was in middle school.

 

Cali Binstock  00:09:16 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:18 

Yada yada yada.

I got into high school. I was bullied, and then and then I realized, like, oh, okay. This is this is this this is what it feels like, and it feels pretty terrible.

But I was a bully because I I I struggled. I I there's something that I needed.

 

Cali Binstock  00:09:30 

No.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:35 

And it was I needed

 

Cali Binstock  00:09:35 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:37 

people to like me because nobody really liked me at home.

 

Cali Binstock  00:09:42 

Look at that.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:43 

And, you know, the people who actually

showed me some attention

were, you know, these these girls who were kinda bullies. I did have a couple friends that were like, my good friends,

and

they're still my good friends today.

But,

you know, we they were kind of pulled into all of it as well. And I I have to say, they're good people. They're good people now. I don't know about the other girls.

 

Cali Binstock  00:10:03 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:09 

Then I'm sure they're great people.

But I I just wanna say it's her

say it again. Her people, her people,

 

Cali Binstock  00:10:17 

Definitely.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:17 

and

And it's really hard.

If you like to understand that, especially if you've experienced trauma, unless you're unless you're on your, like, far into your healing.

 

Cali Binstock  00:10:25 

Right.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:29 

And, you know, I feel like

being curious about certain situations

when someone's being mean,

it's never it's it's almost never about

 

Cali Binstock  00:10:37 

Yes.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:41 

it's it's about the person who is being mean. It's not like

 

Cali Binstock  00:10:43 

Right.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:44 

right?

 

Cali Binstock  00:10:45 

That reminds me of Oprah's

I don't think it's that new anymore,

but it's like and I heard her talking about it on a podcast. It was like,

not what's wrong with you. The question should be, what happens to you?

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:00 

Yes.

Exactly.

 

Cali Binstock  00:11:03 

You know, and just having that awareness that people are acting from

maybe trauma and

insecurity

and not

as much out to get you because nobody cares that much about,

you know, you not in not in a bad way, but, like,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:21 

Right.

 

Cali Binstock  00:11:23 

People are so self centric that

it's usually their own issues.

That they have to deal with. You know?

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:30 

I agree.

And they're only outlet. Maybe you. Maybe they're so comfortable with you that you are the only outlet.

 

Cali Binstock  00:11:32 

But yeah.

Yeah.

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:39 

Ask my husband.

I mean, it's

 

Cali Binstock  00:11:42 

I know when you're really comfy with someone you can be.

Alamine.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:48 

yes.

 

Cali Binstock  00:11:48 

Yeah. I'm guilty of it too, for sure.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:49 

Yes.

Yeah, a hundred percent. You know, I I talked to Jared about I mean, my husband's Jared. But I talked to my daughter

about bullying because she there are times where she's felt bullied.

And because she's felt bullied, you know, she comes to me. She's like this person said this, and I'm like, oh my goodness. Well, you know, there's probably something going on with them, and it's not about you. I think that was

 

Cali Binstock  00:12:05 

Mhmm.

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:14 

that was really important.

To

 

Cali Binstock  00:12:17 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:17 

my daughter, Olivia,

because

I feel like you can it's easy to take things personally.

 

Cali Binstock  00:12:24 

Oh, yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:24 

You know,

even when my husband gets mad at me, when Jared, my husband gets mad at me, I

can I can take it personally or he's being distant? I take it personally. Oh, you don't you don't love me anymore. You know, this is this is my thing. Right? But the truth is there's just something going on internally with him. Maybe it's work. Maybe it's something else. And I think it's, like you said, what Oser said,

 

Cali Binstock  00:12:33 

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:47 

what happened? What did what happened to you?

 

Cali Binstock  00:12:50 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:50 

Why are you behaving this way? And I feel like for this person who

is not on my show right now,

 

Cali Binstock  00:12:58 

You're right.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:59 

it was

I I think

we should stop with the

and I and with the

I don't believe in her trauma because she is such a liar. I think she has experienced

some sort of trauma,

big tea, trauma, little tea, trauma that

made her feel that she needed to

scam people out of money. And, you

know,

in my neighborhood.

I live in Washington, DC, and there are a lot of car jackings, car thefts,

 

Cali Binstock  00:13:31 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:32 

but it's something that was really interesting that happened.

This little while ago, but we have a listserv

 

Cali Binstock  00:13:37 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:38 

for moms on the hill, and a woman

was saying that her car got broken into.

But she didn't say, you know, didn't didn't anyone have any

cameras on this in this area. She specifically

 

Cali Binstock  00:13:50 

Oh,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:51 

asked, George said,

They stole

diapers.

They're someone in our neighborhood, in our community who is so desperate

for such a necessity

that they broke into my car and stole diapers,

 

Cali Binstock  00:14:03 

Oh my god.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:07 

and she wasn't angry.

She actually said we should actually do a

 

Cali Binstock  00:14:09 

Right.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:12 

a diaper drive because someone needs it.

 

Cali Binstock  00:14:14 

Hold on.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:15 

And I was like, oh my gosh.

 

Cali Binstock  00:14:16 

The great

but a great human she is to,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:19 

Right.

Can you imagine if we looked at everything like that? Like,

 

Cali Binstock  00:14:20 

you know,

Right.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:24 

we've been we've been harmed. Why?

Can how can we help this?

 

Cali Binstock  00:14:27 

Yeah.

Well, that's, like, the chain of pain and And if you recognize

it, it's the only way to, like, start breaking the chain. You know?

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:39 

That's awareness.

Mental health awareness.

 

Cali Binstock  00:14:40 

Awareness

is always step one. Right? Like, that's where you have to start.

And then

that's the only place that, like,

good action. I guess you would say it would come from.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:53 

Yes.

 

Cali Binstock  00:14:54 

Right? Like,

yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:57 

Good humans.

I mean, I can say this all day long, but there will be moments in my life where I'm, like, You know? It's like, I think I did a TikTok

a while ago where I'm like,

hello, all. I hope you have a wonderful day, and then, like, pretend to honk my horn and

 

Cali Binstock  00:15:11 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:14 

yell, like, what the fuck is the matter with you?

 

Cali Binstock  00:15:17 

Right.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:17 

It's really it's really the same thing. It's like, okay, everybody.

Make you know, give everyone as a chance, not everyone is experience.

You know, everyone's

 

Cali Binstock  00:15:27 

So

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:27 

you never know what everyone's experiencing,

and then you turn around, you're like, why did they do this? Why did they you know, it's just depending on your day. Right?

 

Cali Binstock  00:15:30 

yeah.

Yeah.

Well, relationships

are if you're not regulated

and you're having a gut reaction because things are chaotic, like,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:38 

Right.

 

Cali Binstock  00:15:43 

You have to give yourself grace too, I guess,

after those situations.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:46 

Exactly.

Yeah. I think it's right. Yeah. I I I think it all comes to, like, this this whole idea the system of regulating your nervous system. Right? We when we're dysregulated,

 

Cali Binstock  00:15:57 

Hey.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:59 

awareness is out the window.

 

Cali Binstock  00:16:01 

Oh, yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:02 

But it's also one of those things. If you train your yourself to be to will be aware when you're not

 

Cali Binstock  00:16:10 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:10 

dysregulated,

then it'll it becomes easier when you are dysregulated.

 

Cali Binstock  00:16:16 

Through.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:17 

To be able to

respond

and not react.

 

Cali Binstock  00:16:22 

Exactly.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:22 

And

and so, yeah,

I also wanted to talk about cancel culture because I think there were also a lot of people, and I agree with them, people who responded, like, what did this person do. I don't believe in cancel culture. If people canceled me, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now.

And I agree with that because

 

Cali Binstock  00:16:41 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:43 

and like I said earlier, I mentioned I don't know if you heard, but I mentioned, you know, this person

 

Cali Binstock  00:16:49 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:50 

You know, this it just she just it just didn't work with the podcast itself. It's a trauma survivor, Thrivers Podcast.

 

Cali Binstock  00:16:57 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:57 

And she's not in a place where she's thriving. And but I think she's in a place where she could start her healing. And I I do hope that for her. I wish that for her,

 

Cali Binstock  00:17:01 

Yeah.

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:10 

but I also agree, like,

you know, canceled culture is just so volatile.

Why? We don't need to

we we can we can stop giving them attention because when you keep feeding into feeding into this,

 

Cali Binstock  00:17:22 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:24 

right, then they'll just start re reacting.

 

Cali Binstock  00:17:25 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:28 

But if you give them the space to maybe be able to see what they're doing because you can't shame people into doing things. Let's let's be real here. You can't shame people into doing the right thing. They need to figure it out for themselves. And I think in a a place to be able to do that is a place of quiet,

 

Cali Binstock  00:17:35 

True.

Yeah.

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:47 

and I think

cancel culture. It's not that we're canceling you. Like, you're done,

but I think it's like I think it's more like

 

Cali Binstock  00:17:54 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:57 

Okay.

This is your opportunity

to make some changes and understand your actions and maybe make some changes and maybe do better and help others do better.

 

Cali Binstock  00:18:04 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:08 

And then I think that's when.

 

Cali Binstock  00:18:08 

We all make mistakes,

so I guess there's a scale of, like,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:10 

Yes.

 

Cali Binstock  00:18:14 

you know,

if someone is a dangerous human,

you know, that's one thing, but

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:20 

Right.

 

Cali Binstock  00:18:20 

making mistakes

and

I don't know. I just

it makes me think about

people in jail and just the amount of incarceration

in our in our country, and

it just seems insane.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:38 

No. It does.

 

Cali Binstock  00:18:39 

But how many how many people and mostly people of color in in jails for smaller crimes, and

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:44 

Mhmm.

 

Cali Binstock  00:18:47 

and, you know, the

perpetuating

cycle

with poverty, and it's just

it's not a it's it's not usually a place of rehabilitation.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:59 

Yeah.

 

Cali Binstock  00:18:59 

It's a place of a lot of with a lot of toxicity. I'm sure they're I mean, I taught art at at our county jail here in Pittsburgh

briefly. I wasn't there a long, long time, but

I believe in

in,

you know, rehabilitation,

and I think

setting people up for reintegration,

and

it's just crazy. We don't have more mental health support for

for these people.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:28 

Yeah. I I think that's that's that's the issue here. The our mental health care system in America

is so

dysfunctional.

 

Cali Binstock  00:19:39 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:39 

There's there's not enough going on. There's just

not not enough people

I mean, who can afford it really? I mean, it's very expensive

 

Cali Binstock  00:19:47 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:49 

to get mental health treatment in America. And to get good mental health, specialized health

 

Cali Binstock  00:19:55 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:56 

care, that's that's

that it it's it's so rare. Yet we there's all these other issues that we're dealing with. But if we can if we can, like, get to the root of it, which is, like, our mental health care system, we could probably fix a lot more things.

 

Cali Binstock  00:20:08 

Mhmm.

Right. Like the the domino effect of that would be so worth it, so worth investing in.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:14 

Mhmm.

Yes.

Inquiry.

But but that's the question is if someone's

you know, I I'm sure there's hundreds and hundreds of people all over America trying to work on how are we gonna get there.

It's just it is a it's a it's a very daunting task. And and,

 

Cali Binstock  00:20:35 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:36 

you know, that's why I'm kind of hoping, like, for all of us, it's just

we're working on ourselves. I I'd like if if each individual

 

Cali Binstock  00:20:44 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:46 

can work on themselves,

I think that that that right there is growth. And,

 

Cali Binstock  00:20:49 

No.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:52 

again, it's that easily said,

not easily done.

 

Cali Binstock  00:20:57 

Right.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:58 

And but I I mean, I feel like talking about it,

bringing awareness to it,

 

Cali Binstock  00:21:04 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:05 

you know, I think that's everything. I think that that that's why we're having this conversation. I could have easily canceled the show.

 

Cali Binstock  00:21:11 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:14 

But it really

Cali Binstock  00:21:14 

Cancel all the color.

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:16 

cancel culture. Yes. I but I really could not sleep just thinking about all of the stuff that was happening.

Cali Binstock  00:21:23 

Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:23 

And and so I did wanna briefly

kinda touch on this and and, you know,

have this conversation

 

Cali Binstock  00:21:31 

Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:32 

because,

you know, I, myself, was just

dealing with trauma. I did awful things. That I am absolutely not proud of. I am very lucky that social media didn't exist when I was a child.

 

Cali Binstock  00:21:41 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:47 

And

 

Cali Binstock  00:21:48 

I know. How lucky were we?

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:50 

I I mean, we were so lucky. It it scares me to think, like, if social media existed,

twenty

 

Cali Binstock  00:21:57 

God.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:58 

years ago,

I'd be screwed.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:01 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:01 

I'd be screwed.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:02 

My my late teens and twenties, like, I would rather not

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:04 

Mm-mm.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:06 

have any evidence of that.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:06 

Yes.

Right. Exactly.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:09 

And I hardly do, which is wonderful because

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:12 

Exactly.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:12 

that was, like, traumatic in itself just that time of life.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:13 

Yeah.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:17 

You know, just you don't know. There's so much doubt. And if you've been through trauma, like, ugh,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:17 

Right.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:24 

it's just the hardest time you're not gonna

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:28 

Yep.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:29 

So much

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:29 

No. I agree.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:30 

painful growth. You know?

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:32 

Painful growth. And and I think that's what's really hard about our youth now because, you

know, And that's why that's another reason why I think we we shouldn't cancel these kids. Their their brains are still developing. We don't know what they've gone through. I think it just everything deserves, like, a deeper look and

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:44 

Right.

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:51 

curiosity

of other people and curiosity within yourself. Yeah.

 

Cali Binstock  00:22:56 

Totally.

Totally. I think we were when we were chatting before this, like,

this is so random, but

my kids had it's

actually

dated from, like, the early two thousands. It's the show on Nick that was on Nick Junior,

that Bill Cosby,

it's called Little Bill.

And it was on, like, a DVD they were watching. And I just, like, randomly start thinking about, like, I wonder how he feels about everything

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:19 

Mhmm. Yep.

 

Cali Binstock  00:23:28 

Is he remorseful?

Like, what I wonder if he's doing anything to better himself now? Like, all of these questions, I'm like, that could be asked for so many people.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:37 

Mhmm.

 

Cali Binstock  00:23:38 

But, like,

I don't know. I'm just it's just a thought. Like,

I'm guessing we, as a society, would be more welcoming

to

people who were working on, you know,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:51 

Right.

 

Cali Binstock  00:23:52 

the mistakes that they've made and trying to

kinda reform themselves and,

you know, have more awareness and understand the hurt and kind of, like,

The Invisible Machine & Reseting the Nervous System

This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, April 26th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.

Today’s guest is Jamie Mustard, Co-Author of the book the Invisible Machine: The Startling Truth About Trauma and the Scientific Breakthrough That Can Transform Your Life.

For more information about the Dual Sympathetic Reset Procedure, visit The Stella Center.

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:58 
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside Chat, where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Lorriely Benstock,
Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions on this show by requesting a hop on stage or sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get to you, but I do ask that everybody be respectful.
Today's guest is Jamie mustard, co author of the book, The Invisible Machine, The startling truth about trauma and the scientific breakthrough that can transform
your life. Jamie, thank you so much for joining me today.

Jamie Mustard  00:17:55 
Thank you for having me. I'm sorry. I've not used this platform before, so I'm just having technical difficulties.

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:02 
Oh, you are not the first one, and you will be the last So there's no worry there. I'm just glad we were able to get you on because I really am so fascinated by this because I've actually never heard about this. You co authored this book, the invisible machine, the startling truth about trauma, and the scientific breakthrough.

Jamie Mustard  00:18:05 
Perfect.
I

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:19 
And this you did this with doctor Eugene Lipov. An anesthesiologists
who developed this treatment.
Could you actually describe it? Because you actually
underwent this treatment. Correct?

Jamie Mustard  00:18:30 
I did. And one of the reasons, you know, a lot of people would ask kind of why would an artist
coauthor look with, you know, Yuzhou Lab is more than a
anesthesiologist.
He's a
you could say he's the Einstein of modern anesthesiology
and a
a scientist.
So the question is, you know, why would write her all go author a book with that guy? And and the answer is kind of your
your the way you kinda said at the top that you'd never heard of it. And the reason you've never heard of it is because it's been around for twenty years, and the military is using it. Yeah. And the military is used doing fifteen to twenty thousand of these a year. The second largest cohort getting it is sexual assault victims.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:04 
Stop, really.

Jamie Mustard  00:19:12 
When I saw this,
I saw something that,
you know, whenever you see it on it's been on sixty minutes. It's been on Joe Rogan. It's been on CBS this morning. But when if you ever see it in the media,
it's always at the extremes.
It's always a navy seal,
a fur a nine eleven first responder,
when I came across this, I didn't see this as something for people at the extreme.
I saw this as something that maybe
could be affecting forty to fifty percent of the US
and global population. So my work was to go, hey. This is not for the extreme. This is for society
and everyone
that is experiencing
the symptoms that are associated with fight or flight that may never have even associated themselves
with trauma.

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:03 
I mean, to be honest, I never associated myself with trauma. I'm a childhood sexual abuse survivor, and I didn't realize I experienced trauma. I thought that was just something really
bad that happened that I will never talk about,
but you're right. I feel like that this is very fascinating, and it's a non invasive
outpatient procedure?

Jamie Mustard  00:20:23 
Okay. So, yeah, you asked me what it is. I wouldn't use the word noninvasive.
I would use the word safe.

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:27 
Okay.

Jamie Mustard  00:20:29 
And minimally invasive. It's basically,
he uses a needle to do what we well, we know it's safe because the shot was originally developed retaining hands in nineteen twenty six.
It's now evolved. The doctor kind of reconfigured it and evolved it.
So you it's now we call it he's evolved into what we're calling what he calls
the dual sympathetic reset.
And, basically, what you're doing is you're doing a pain injection that's guided that's guided by an ultrasound. You get a local anesthetic first, so you don't even it feels like nothing.
And
he uses an ultrasound to
guide
a needle that has a tiny you know, so a small amount of anesthetic in it, the same anesthetic that goes into an epidural,
same two dollar amount of anesthetic that goes into an epidural. And your sympathetic nervous system is basically located
in the ganglion, which is a nerves a a a a a
a
a
a string of nerves that run from your amygdala all the way down your but your sympathetic your fight or flight system is in your neck on both sides of your neck.
And what he does is he
in inject this.
God, I think it's I'm gonna get the name of it wrong. But
yeah. But it's the same it's the same, you know,

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:45 
Yeah.

Jamie Mustard  00:21:47 
stuff that goes into an epidural. And what it does is it turns off your sympathetic nervous system,
and it comes online about ten minutes later
at baseline
to the pre trauma state. So you're basically resetting
the sympathetic nervous system. And what we're fine with what what they found is, you know,
the adult trauma or blunt force trauma is on the right side. You can only do one side per day. K? You do two injections on one side, and then you can get the next injection the next day. Anything before puberty or childhood trauma
is on the left side.
And then yeah. So they'll always do the right side first,
and then people that will have have had trial to hood trauma

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:27 
Well,

Jamie Mustard  00:22:30 
may not
experience the reset. So they're starting more and more to to to both
on almost everybody.

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:40 
Wow.
You know, I I and, you know, I know about fight or flight, and I didn't know it was about a cluster of nerves in your neck. I'm wondering, is this why I have neck pain?

Jamie Mustard  00:22:49 
It might be I mean, you have to think of it like this.
Well, first of all, Laura Lee, let me say thank you so much for having me. It's, you know, just a real honor to be here.

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:57 
Oh, of course.

Jamie Mustard  00:23:00 
You know,
you there's two things that causes. One is blunt force trauma. Like, you and I are very Well, we're similar in this regard. I experienced an extreme
massive amount of trauma as a kid probably that most people would never not be able to survive in any sort of meaningful way and
live my entire life up until,
I don't know, five years ago, seven years ago.
Where I was in total denial that I'd even been traumatized. You know, in my in my upbringing, you know, growing up how I grew up is where I grew up in the neighborhood I grew up in. You know, being a victim was the last thing you could ever be. So I never

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:30 
Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  00:23:39 
the thought of thinking of myself as a victim
was just not in my,
you know, just in my in my thought profile. So I just didn't think I had trauma. I got therapy for the first time five or six years ago
with your counseling. After about six weeks. This very lovely. I talked about this in the book. Therapists
diagnosed me with, you know, acute post traumatic stress disorder.
And it's not a disorder. It's actually a physical injury to the body, and you can see it on a brain scan. But she
diagnosed me with PTSD.
I laughed in her face,
because I thought it was such a ridiculous
thing.
She her eyes walled up, and she looked at me
And she said, Jamie, have you been listening to the stories you've been telling me?
And I said,
yes. And she said, how could you not?
And in that moment,
my whole
kind of bullshit life narrative fell apart,
and I kinda went home and hugged the cactus.
I
I started, you know, realizing not only you know, I I not only has I had I've been victimized.
I had been
you know, just completely
savaged and ravaged
as a child, you know, abandoned
you know, at birth with strangers, you know,
very little physical touch in and out of institutional environments.
You know, all this stuff It was, you know, just severe,
egregious
trauma, and I was just like, wow. You know, that's normal. That's what I knew.

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:11 
Well,

Jamie Mustard  00:25:15 
Yeah. So so about five or six years ago, when my my first book came out, maybe it's less, maybe it's, you know,
or maybe it was before that.
I was starting to get to kinda where I wanted in life, and
I
for the first time ever was looking back. You know, I didn't wanna look back. But when I was getting what I wanted,
my discomfort as a person
wasn't going away. In my mind, I thought, god. If I'm just successful,
I'll feel relaxed.
And I was getting successful
and feeling
very unrelaxed, but actually more dis more uncomfortable than I'd ever felt, and I couldn't understand why. So I started
when I got this post traumatic stress diagnosis,
I started looking. I was friends I turned a literary juke with
a a really well known
military
psychologist,
Shawna Springer,
Doc Springer,
and she had started
She was sending people for this procedure,
and
I ended up in the middle of COVID
to have years ago,
getting on a plane in the middle of COVID
and going to Chicago in the winter to do this kind of what I thought was a very avant garde
procedure.
And it was very strange that I did that literally because when you grew up, like, raised by wolves or kinda thrown away like I was, you don't go to the doctor. So you don't go to regular doctors. Let alone go and do kind of new treatments.

Lorilee Binstock  00:26:41 
Yeah.

Jamie Mustard  00:26:45 
But I I when my first book came out, I had a very well known forensic psychologist
named doctor j Faber, who works at Amen Clinic.
He was a fan of my book, and he and I become friends.
And so I just said as a friend, can you bet this thing for me? And it was all upside and no downside.
And so I almost backed out fifty times, but I did it.

Lorilee Binstock  00:27:11 
Can you tell me what that was like?

Jamie Mustard  00:27:13 
Oh my gosh.
Yes. It was the most transformative
thing
that I've ever done in my life, it completely changed my worldview.
And that is because
it was like, I had a lot of judgment towards people, you know, towards people where I grew up the bad neighborhoods where I grew up towards addicts.
Towards people
that were, you know, couldn't get their life together. I had judgment.
K?
When I had when I got both sides of this thing done,
the discomfort
that I'd been experiencing my entire life that I thought was a part of me I won't you know, was gone. It was just like I was me. I didn't feel I didn't even know I couldn't feel that way. I didn't even know because, like, when you're abandoned at birth, what's your I I never
even experience baseline.
Okay?

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:04 
Well, mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  00:28:07 
So it
I'm ever walking this is a good way to describe it. I was walking down the street after getting it in Chicago. I went to the Chicago Art Museum. I was there with friend who is supporting me. And I saw these, like, hustler guys on the street, and they were like and they were looking at me. And I kind of you know, that's something that's triggering for me. I really resent that because it kinda reminds me of my neighborhood, and these guys were looking at me like a mark. And, normally,
that would make me mad.
When I saw these guys, all of a sudden, I didn't see crazy people. I didn't see hustlers.
I saw their biology.
These guys are stuck in fight or flight. And I can explain to you what happens, but, you know, you don't need blunt force trauma. Like, what you and I went through to
need this. The I think the biggest cause of this and why I think it's such a massive swath of the population, and why I think most people that have post traumatic stress. Don't even associate with trauma. You can get is that what one, two things cause this. One is blunt force trauma like what would happen in war seeing your buddy killed in front of you

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:10 
Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  00:29:11 
or
a sexual assault.
But the other thing that causes this, and I think it's the much more
predominant cause
is prolonged allostatic load, chronic stress over time.
Okay? And so

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:28 
Yeah.

Jamie Mustard  00:29:29 
just
so by by
feeling that sense of comfort, my own body, and sense of relief.
My it changed the way just I interact with people now when I see somebody reacting in fight or flight towards me rather than taking it personally or thinking they're crazy.
I understand the biology of it, so it just I just I I have only compassion.

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:54 
That's amazing.
That's amazing. And I and I feel that
You're right. I feel like
I don't know, like, probably ninety, even more than that percent of the population has dealt with chronic stress, especially in America.
And I feel like,
you know, everyone can benefit
from
from, you know, a a treatment like this. I feel like that there's
every a lot of people everyone I know deals with a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety.
And for something like this to be available and to
you say twenty years. I'm like, what? I just heard about this,
like, last month.
And so I'm intrigued.
Does this treatment need to be accompanied by
ongoing therapy
or
or or what? What would you suggest?

Jamie Mustard  00:30:43 
It it it's a it's a great question, and and I'd like to answer it, and then I'd like to kinda back up and explain
very specifically how one could get this and how a lot of your listeners right now are are going, well, do I have trauma and I know it? And how would you know it? And
but something he's saying is resonating to me. So look with me. So I wish I could understand this more. So let me kind of explain the kind of how it works with other therapies. And then let me kind of back it up and explain why and how I came to write a book with who I think
made the most
preminent most important medical discovery since the discovery of Penicillin in nineteen twenty eight. And I would compare it as a human discovery to the moon landing. If we can reset the nervous system, it changes the world.
And so I think this guy will go on to win the Nobel Prize because
even if you compare it to the polio vaccine,
you know, suicide is linked to fight or flight.
If you, you know, fifty thousand people a year stopped dying because when they when the polio vaccine was discovered, I think, in the forties,
That
the amount of suicides this could could prevent in a year dwarfs that number compared to all the other ailments and physical
conditions because this conduct if you have an a a novactive
sympathetic nervous system, if your nervous system is stuck in fight or flight, you're gonna have a cascade of physiological
problems.
It discombobulates
the immune system. It destroys this scavenger system in the body,

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:13 
Right.

Jamie Mustard  00:32:15 
which is the system that is constantly,
you know, keeping you from having autoimmune diseases,
orthopedic problems,
cancer,
that system can get discombobulated.
Right? So, you know, if the body keeps the score, that I would say this is the scorekeeper.
But I think maybe backing it up and and and and kind of coming to how did I come to write an artist and and our come to write a book with a a a scientist.
Right? But so, basically, I went and did this thing. My life was changed.
And a couple months later, I got invited
by two colonels that run all the training for special forces.
To speak to come to Fort Bragg and speak to special forces at JFK auditorium
regarding my book, The Iconist,
okay, which is kind of like a Malcolm Gladwell type book to business communications and art book. And
it was kind of crazy. You know, I'm a kid from the strums slums of LA, and all of a sudden, I was going to Fort Bragg and teaching site, you know,
psychological operations how to create better counter propaganda against the Russians and the Chinese. You know, I mean, it's crazy. That I would be in that situation.
So I got invited to Fort Bragg. When I got this procedure,
the doctor came into
the
wait into the to the host op room. And he said,
hey. And I wish I'd get it from the inventor, doctor Eugene La Bauch, my co author. And he said, hey. I was told to treat you like a VIP. Why?
And I said, well, I'm an author, and we have a mutual friend. So our mutual friend, you know, I have a bit of a platform, you know, probably wanted to make sure I was taken care of. And then he left again, and then he came back. And he said, listen. This procedure is gonna this
I mean, I get what what are you this the
try this anesthesia, this thing that you just got in your neck, it's gonna wear off in about seven or eight hours. Can I pick you up at the hotel and take you to dinner?
And we we talk about this in the book.
And I said,
Sure.
You know, why not? And so he picks me up from the hotel. We go to this Mexican restaurant, this fancy Mexican restaurant with the windows open. It's raining. In the middle of COVID. The wind is blowing through, and he starts pouring
glasses of expensive red wine.
And download and gives me a three hour download of the science and history of this thing.
And my mind
and my my just mouth my jaw fell up. And I remember turning
to my friend who was at the dinner with us. He kinda sped off in his Tesla. We Ubered home,
And I turned to my friend and I said, we just had dinner with the smartest human being I've ever met.
And, you know, I've met a lot I mean, I went to the one in school then economics. I know a lot of smart people. Right?

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:04 
Wow.

Jamie Mustard  00:35:07 
So
so he and I so then a few I get back to Portland a few days go by, and I get a call from this guy, and he says, hey. I just read your book. And we just started talking, and we became friends.
Right after that, I got invited to Fort Bragg.
And I and the doctor couldn't believe that I was being invited to Fort Bragg by these colonel. So he said, hey. Can I come sit in the audience for your talk? I know they're doing my procedure at Fort Bragg, but they won't talk to me. I don't know how. So
basically,
I
talked to these colonel. They had never heard of this thing, the DSR at that time. It was called the FGB, the slight gainly a block. But they started researching it. They called me back, and they said, yeah. We're doing
ten of these a day, six days a week. They're they were doing three thousand a year Fort Greg alone.

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:57 
And was this on
active military?

Jamie Mustard  00:36:01 
Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:03 
Interesting. So

Jamie Mustard  00:36:04 
So

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:05 
go ahead.

Jamie Mustard  00:36:05 
yeah. No. So the VA was probably doing more. But the lot what really, what happened is there was a post traumatic stress, meaning
where I got really upset because I had to sit in you know, the colonel's arranged ten days of meetings. Even though it was six weeks away, it normally takes seven months to a year to get grand rounds at Wilmac. Doctor Lipa, the Dunground rounds at Walter Reed, the colonels arranged for the doctor to come with me and do Grand Rounds for all the doctors at Womack because they were doing the procedure at Fort Bragg based off of the ten year old paper. So it was to bring them into
all the modifications
because
ten years ago, this thing was seventy percent effective in the relief post traumatic stress. Now it's up to eighty and five to ninety percent.
So because of latest modifications. So he did ground rounds. And in one of the post traumatic stress meetings, I sat around for two hours and listened to these guys and come back from Iraq and Afghanistan and special forces guys.
And
their stories, and they were all told that they had a disorder, and it made me really angry because at that point, I knew one hundred percent
that they had a physical injury to their body and that post traumatic stress disorder does not exist. It's post traumatic stress injury,
is it physical injury to the body? You can see it on a brain scan.
So at the end of that meeting, I expressed my rage at the fact that these guys are sacrificing their bodies, their families, their wives, their children. They don't come back the same. And then they're being then their government is telling them they're crazy. It may be mad. And I said that. And so I think the guy that runs the health initiative task force, I think he was kind of you know, he kinda saw me as this Arty Rider guy. He didn't know what to make of me. But when I expressed my truth. I think he kinda started to respect me, and he called me over at the end of the meeting.
And he said, Jamie, have you ever heard of operator syndrome? And I said, no. And he showed of these symptoms on his phone. It was about eight symptoms.
And the the symptoms that you would experience if you were running from a tiger Okay?
And
I and and that this is what happens if you're never in a fight or fight at Fort Black bragging. Or to say, you're never in a fire fight in Afghanistan or Iraq, but you just you're deployed at a firebase,
and you have the stress of being away from your family, and maybe you could die that day from an IED or from something else. Right? So it's this prolonged allostatic load, but you're never in a fight. They call that operator syndrome.
Okay?
And when I saw that list of symptoms,
Laura Lee, I didn't see the military.
I saw the
Mexican neighborhoods where I grew up in Los Angeles.
And so my mind started spinning.
Could it be that the stress of poverty
or if you're middle class
and the stress of having distant parents, a mother that needles you, a mean father,
could it be that the chronic stress of that, a divorce
could cause the exact same biological injury as someone coming back from war.
Because the sympathetic nervous system is a machine,
an invisible machine, hence the name of the book, the invisible machine.
Could it be that that it doesn't think it's apathetic. So could it be that average people have the exact same symptoms in their body as someone coming back from war, but they don't know it because they just got it from having,
you know, parents that didn't hug them.
Or talk to them a certain way. And that and that's where
my mind met doctor Lipov's
staggering innovation.

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:28 
Yeah. I mean, that affects the majority of people.
Right? These are these they they are considered, I guess, little tee traumas,
but the react the reaction and the activation within the
you know, the amygdala, it's all the same. Right?

Jamie Mustard  00:39:46 
Yeah. I mean, let me kinda tell you kind of how let me kind of give a primitive way of how one gets this.

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:51 
Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  00:39:51 
And then go and why don't I go over the seven symptoms? That way, the people listening can go, well, I don't have trauma. Then they can listen to me, list it, and they go, maybe I do. Right?

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:01 
Please. Please.

Jamie Mustard  00:40:01 
So
yeah. So listen. I people, like, at the extreme, were seeking this out and finding it. But people like me were not and and, again, I wasn't the extreme. I just didn't know it. And I you know, my goal was to bring this to military
My goal is to bring this into the light, and I think it should be more popular or known than LASIK. It contains the way we we interact.
As a species. But, basically,
you have to think of it as if you were
running from a tiger. You know, you live in a jungle, you know, a bounce years ago, you're and you're
and you're a tiger comes out of nowhere.
Well,
in the moment,
It's Peter Levine's work. That guy, he wrote a book, I think, in the yeah. In the was it in the eighties or nineties cold run? Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:43 
Yeah.
Awaken.
Awaken the tiger.

Jamie Mustard  00:40:48 
Yeah. Running from the tiger. Yeah. Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:48 
An unspoken voice. Yeah. It's a yeah. Awaken the Tiger. Yes. I've read I've read the unspoken voice of Peter Levine. I'm fascinated with somatic experiencing. But, yes, continue.

Jamie Mustard  00:40:55 
Okay.
Okay. So, say, a tiger comes out of nowhere. You live in the jungle a thousand years ago. Well, what is gonna happen in that moment? Is you're gonna have
seven or eight symptoms.
K? You're gonna have seven or eight feelings. Your amygdala
is gonna send a signal to these nerves on each side of your neck, and that's gonna jerk you into response. So you are walking on you're hiking up a mountain, and there's a cliff, and you almost slip and fall down it. Your amygdala sends a signal you signal to these are you on the swerve your car and hit somebody, but just you avert the accident just in time because your amygdala sends a signal to these nerves in your neck that jerk you in action to either flee or fight for your life. K?
Fireflies.

Lorilee Binstock  00:41:40 
Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  00:41:40 
Well, typically, if that happens and it's something like swerving your car, you're heightened for five maybe three to five hours because you felt like you almost died. And then
for for, you know, four or five hours later, you'll come back down to baseline.
Right? But if the trauma is too great, like your buddy being killed in front of you, or you
or then or a sexual assault,
and you have this overwhelming trauma.
The your your sympathetic nervous system
actually gets locked into fire flight.
So you're locked into feeling like you're running from a tiger
twenty four hours a day, three hundred and sixty five days a year, seven days a week. K?
So what would you experience if a tiger or leap out of you? You would experience anxiety.
You'd be anxious that the tiger was gonna kill you. You'd have mild paranoia that the tiger was right there at that that moment. You would have a sense of doom. You'd feel like the other shoe is gonna drop every second because you knew the tiger was right there. You would be hyper vigilant about the tiger. You would be hyper aroused
about the tiger. You wouldn't be able to sleep because you can't sleep if a tiger is chasing you. You would be highly reactive and have a hair trigger because you would need to be reactive to survive the tiger.

Lorilee Binstock  00:42:49 
Right.

Jamie Mustard  00:42:55 
K?
And these guys that come back from Afghanistan and Iraq,
a massive majority of them, something like twenty five percent of them all have
erectile dysfunction because you can't have sex if you're running from a tiger.
In the military, the ultimate form of fight, and the ultimate form of flight in the military,
suicide,
is the ultimate form of flight where people are changing to protect. It's the ultimate form of flight. In the neighborhoods where I grew up where maybe violence is acceptable,
or life is cheaper,
homicide is the ultimate form of fight.
So I believe when you see these violence rates in the community that I live in, and you see these suicide rates in the military, it is one hundred percent an overactive sympathetic nervous system. So when you experience those symptoms, you can get that say the tiger never eats you. You're just in a jungle where there's lots of tigers. So you're you're carrying the stress
of the type of tigers all the time. K?
It it would be a
it would be a survival
mechanism. It would be a survival tool to be locked in firefly. It actually would help you to survive.
K? The problem is if you're sitting at home watching Netflix, you know, eating
Cheetos,
and drinking, you know, a LaCroix,
and you're feeling that way, it creates a really, really big problem.
And and think about it also like this.
We're meant to
experience those symptoms, anxiety, paranoia,
sense of doom or mild paranoid, hyper vigilant, hyper aroused, a lack of sleep, hair trigger reactivity.
We're meant to experience that for about thirty seconds where we either
flee from the tiger or we fight the tiger.
K? And then we're supposed to calm down and be normal as humans. K? Those are supposed to be short bursts.

Lorilee Binstock  00:44:43 
Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  00:44:46 
Of fight or flight.
If you have to experience like a tiger is gonna eat you in every second, twenty all the time.
Which is what happens when your sympathetic gets
stuck in fight or flight.
You're gonna you're not gonna wanna live. You're gonna wanna kill yourself. We're not designed to wanna live like a tiger is gonna eat us every second. You're gonna either wanna kill yourself or you're gonna wanna kill somebody.
Right? So
there was a guy named Frank Oport who defined

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:13 
Yeah.

Jamie Mustard  00:45:16 
Stockholm syndrome,
for the
in the nineteen seventies for the FBI, and he's a very famous psychiatrist.
And and in two thousand twelve, He's been working since two thousand twelve. He's been working very hard
with others to try and get the name changed from post traumatic stress disorder. To post traumatic stress, injury, PTSD.
So
can I keep going? I don't you know, I don't be able to Okay. So okay. Okay. No. So so

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:44 
Of course. Yes. Keep going. No. This is fascinating.

Jamie Mustard  00:45:49 
so let's back it up. So let so everyone's different. Like, the
You can, to a child,
a father that is distant, a mother that needles you, that allastatic load for a child is staggering.
And that person would not associate themselves with trauma. So I'm trying to get this away from just the extremes. I want those people to get it, but I'm trying to bring this to it. Kindergarten teachers, yoga instructors, plumbers, CEOs, accountants, attorneys. I'm trying to bring this to the every person.
Right?
But, you know, I think a really good way to explain this
is
Back at nineteen seventy,
doctor Frank Ochberg, this guy that came up with a term post traumatic stress injury,
And, again, you can see this on a brain scan, Laura Lee. So if I if someone has an overactive sympathetic nervous system and I scan their brain with a functional MRI,
I will see overactivity
in their amygdala,
and I will see decreased blood flow to their frontal cortex.
Normally to
g to fix to kind of mitigate against that, and then we're gonna get after I explain this, we'll get to how it relates to other therapies.
Normally, to mitigate against that,
I might need six months of hyperbaric,
no drugs and alcohol,
Cademy, so as you know, I could do a million things, and I would only mitigate against that so much. To and I could get some
decrease
in that overactivity in the amygdala from all those therapies for years. And maybe I would get
some increased blood flow
to my frontal cortex.
If you do this injection
where you just reset the nervous system with no side effects no long term side effects. There's a side effect that day.
They get you get it. And then the second day, you get it. And then by the evening of both days, it's gone.
If you get the reset, you
you're just
a person again, and you're not having to use all these things to it's like physical therapy in a broken leg.
You wouldn't do physical therapy over a broken leg. You'd set the leg, then you'd do physical therapy. So all these incredible therapies work but we're doing them over a broken leg.

Lorilee Binstock  00:48:03 
Right.

Jamie Mustard  00:48:08 
And so what you would see on a brain scan after
doing a DSR dual sympathetic reset is
that overactivity in the amygdala would be gone in a day. It'd be completely gone, and you have increased blood flow
to the
your frontal cortex
in a way that that years
of all those other modalities combined would never achieve. Because you're doing physical therapy over a broken leg. It also when you when you call it a disorder,
it's incredibly stigmatizing, and you could even say inhumane
if it's a lie, which it is because it's actually a physical injury of the body.
So it's like, if you we don't have broken leg syndrome or broken leg disorder.
When you call something a mental disorder that's actually a physical injury, it's very harmful. Incredibly stigmatizing.
But if you call it a physical injury, you take all the stigma away. No one has a stigma for over you having a broken leg because you can see it.

Lorilee Binstock  00:48:59 
Yeah.

Jamie Mustard  00:49:08 
You can't see an overactive sympathetic, but it's just as broken as a broken leg. It's the best metaphor to describe it. And that's why we call the book the Invisible Machine,
the StarLink truth about Trauma, and the
scientific breakthrough that can transform your life. But what I'd like to do, Lorely, and then I'll kind of back up and answer your question next question. I think I think this is the best way for people to understand and and and unequivocally
that what I'm saying is true. Like, I can hear people listening right now going, is that true? Is that true? Come on. How can it be a physical injury? I'm gonna say, well, here's how it's a physical injury. When I explain this, no one no one will question it anymore. K? Because I'll give you an an analogy that everyone can understand.
Back in nineteen
seventy, doctor Frank Ochberg published a book with a one through Stanford, scientists,
the guy that came up with PTSD in two thousand twelve back in nineteen
excuse me.
He published a book called
violence and the struggle for existence.
That book was put out by Little Brown,
It was
the the the forward to that book was written by Caretta Scott King, the wife of doctor Martin Luther King because it was two years
after his assassination.
Violence in the struggle for existence. In that book,
there is a chapter called biology and aggression.
And
and what what what
these scientists explain is we one hundred percent know that trauma
is biological.
And the reason we know it, we don't know how,
but the reason we know it
is because if you beat or abuse a dog, a goat, a chicken, a cat,
it's behavior changes.
Either becomes highly aggressive,
fight,
or incredibly
timid, flight.
Well, we didn't just give that goat or that dog a disorder. It's not sentient in the same way a human being is. So doctors, we knew we've known for a long, long time that when we traumatize something, we've changed the biology.
We just didn't know how until doctor Lipac first published on this in two thousand,
I think, two thousand eight.
Barack Obama
endorsed this as far back as two thousand ten.
So it's it's been out there. It's just always associated
with the extreme. You know? So when pop when doctor Lipa published on this in two thousand eight, Frank Ochberg found him. Now they're close friends.
So,
obviously,
we've all can relate to an animal that we know has been traumatized.
We didn't give it a disorder. We know we've changed this biology.
Doctor Lipov
figured out how and then how to reset
anybody to the pre trauma state.

Lorilee Binstock  00:52:04 
Wow. Well, I've this is this is extremely fascinating because, you know, I I am a huge fan. I don't know if you've listened to any of my podcasts prior, but I'm a huge advocate for psychedelic assisted therapy.
But I I'm
would you say that doing something like the DSR
And then, I mean,
do you
if
for it to go
haywire again, you would just have to experience traffic and or or you're completely reset.

Jamie Mustard  00:52:33 
No. If you go traumatize yourself again, you're one hundred percent going to have to
do this. You know? So a couple things I would, you know, say is one thing is, you know, what
one of the things that got me started on this journey. Is that is a conversation that I had with Daniel Amon? Do you know who he is?

Lorilee Binstock  00:52:53 
Yes. I do. Yes. Very fascinating stuff.

Jamie Mustard  00:52:54 
Okay.
Yeah. The ring that came to meet Daniel Amon is that forensic psychiatrist,
doctor j Faber, who got me really started on this journey. I mean, I would not If I don't meet Kaye Faber, who runs the Encino Amon Clinic, who's probably the most bona fide forensic psychiatrist
in the United States,
maybe the world in terms of education,
degrees, and board certifications.
He was a fan of the book, The Economist. He contacted me on the website and said, can you come to LA and speak to inner city kids, and I'll pay you through my my foundation? And I said, well, hey, man. I'll I'll come to LA, and I'll talk to kids. But I don't think I could take money for going to my hometown and talking to kids. But but I'll come out and do it, but I I just wanna take your money.
And but public speaking is a way that I make money, but just I wouldn't do it that way. Yeah. I wouldn't do I I told my agent that I couldn't charge for that. You know?
And

Lorilee Binstock  00:53:47 
Yeah.

Jamie Mustard  00:53:47 
but
this guy, he reads he and I become
friends. So he's the one that vetted the
at the time it was SGB, now it's DCR DSR for me.
And, basically, I asked him about this because I was really wanting to feel better because I was successful
And now I didn't have a reason for discomfort because I thought, well, if I just achieved my goals, I'll I'll feel good. And then I had all my goals achieved, and I was feeling worse than ever, and that was causing me
to be very concerned.
And
what you know, and the precursor to that is you know, growing up in poverty, people you know, I was semi literate into my late teens.
And I went from
because through the a relative gave me an opportunity,
to not be in poverty and to just focus on my studies for the first time in my life and to have eyeglasses and medical care when I was nineteen.
And I went from doing remedial classes at a community college to graduating from the London School of Economics in just over five years.

Lorilee Binstock  00:54:46 
No.

Jamie Mustard  00:54:47 
And people say, how did you do that? Why did you do that? And the thing was I was desperate. I had lived in poverty and ignorance. And in my mind, I thought if I have affluence, which an education,
that means
I won't have pain. So if if if if if poverty and ignorance meant pain, affluence and education would mean no pain. So it drove me to this extraordinary
overcoming of my life. And I remember
arriving to the one in school of economics
at twenty one or twenty years old, you know, twenty one years old Man.
And thinking, finally, I would be I was away from pain, and I was around, you know, the some of the most smartest people in the world
And when I got there, they had they were just as messed up and maybe had more problems
than the people in the neighborhoods where I grew up.
And so my whole premise fell apart, Laura Lee, because
I thought, well, at least we had a reason to have these problems. We're dealing with, you know, reality every day in terms of aspects of survival. These guys are just have out everything that you can imagine, but they have the same
anomalies and problems. And and so I was kind of disheartened and deflated because it didn't solve my problems.
I didn't understand
why
everyone experiences
this these aspects of existence
until I went through this procedure twenty years later, twenty five years later.
Okay?
But
So, you know, one thing that kind of got me on on this project also was
three and a half years ago, doctor Lipbob teamed up with a private equity firm Sterling Partners and and Chicago.
They are a multimillion dollar private equity firm to open up clinics all over the United States, which is called the Stella Center. And one thing I would say is the only place that has
doctor Lipob's, what I would call, the Stella protocols. Doctor Lipob is the chief medical officer there. Is the Stella center. There's thirty five of them in the United States. If you don't go to a Stella center, you're not getting this. Okay?
But without them, I would have never chosen to do a book because why promote a book to the world if it's not available to everyone?
Right? But back to this conversation.

Lorilee Binstock  00:57:03 
That's what I was gonna ask.

Jamie Mustard  00:57:05 
Yeah. But let me tell you about this conversation with Daniel Amon, and then I'll shut up and open and let your your questions.
So so doctor one day, doctor Faber said to me, we and I become friends. He'd written a book called Escape, rehabilitate your brain and stay on the legal system that kind of really where he where they were
able to rehabilitate people's brains that had been through addicts, and I was really impressed by the data science in that book.
And so one day, he starts insisting that Daniel, Eamon and I have to have a phone call. Right? So
So he he forces Daniel Amon and I onto a Zoom call.
I was excited about it because I get to meet, you know, the great Daniel Amon. I think Daniel Lima did not wanna be there.

Lorilee Binstock  00:57:47 
Yeah.

Jamie Mustard  00:57:48 
He was like, what am I doing on a call with this guy? And so what I did for the first four it was about an hour and a half call. What I did the first forty five minutes of that call was just asked Daniel questions. Why this? Why that? You know, just was curious.
And I think after about forty five minutes later,
And, you know, he said, how can I help you? Jamie, what do you want for me? And I said, listen. You're the one that's been leading the charge for the last thirty years saying, that mental
issues or brain health issues, that they're biological.
He knew nothing about the this aspect of the sympathetic nervous system, the SDB. I wouldn't say nothing, but it was not something he'd been investigating. He was mostly dealing
with brain toxicity
and TBI.

Lorilee Binstock  00:58:30 
Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  00:58:31 
And I said, listen. You're the one that's been leading this charge.
So
if I'm right and this is an a major part of the mechanism, a,
then you just you need to be a part of it.
You know, you're the one that you're the first person through the gate taking all the hits. Saying this stuff is biological. This is a major part of the equation.
You I think that it makes total sense that you're a part of this.
And so he this is forty five minutes in. I can kinda see him relax, and he says, hold on.
And he starts googling right in front of me thoroughly.
And I I we're I'm staring at him through the Zoom, and his kinda mouth comes, falls open, and he goes,
and I said, what?
And he said, hey. There is a very credible
study here that says that this is seventy percent
effective in the permanent relief of most ex post traumatic stress symptoms.
And I said, whoa. Whoa. Whoa, Daniel? And then and he said,
And I said, well, Daniel, that's an old study with the it's gotta be a ten year old paper with the recent modifications of the dual injection in the right and left side. It's at eighty five to ninety percent.

Lorilee Binstock  00:59:34 
Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  00:59:42 
And Daniel Lehman looks at me through the Zoom and says,
Jamie,
you don't understand.
At seventy percent, this is no surprise winning work. I'll help you.

Lorilee Binstock  00:59:56 
Wow.

Jamie Mustard  00:59:57 
Yeah. And then he's been a massive partner for me.
You know, I sent my first awarded people that I sent to Chicago because they were doing it wrong at Womac,
was I a private jet company donated a plane to send thirteen of my special forces operators,
to
Fort Bragg, or no, to to Chicago.
I scan their brains and name in clinic in Chicago, do this procedure on them over two days, scan their brains again less than forty eight hours later, and Amy. So Amy's been a massive
supporter
partner for me. I could not have done this book without him.

Lorilee Binstock  01:00:29 
Wow. Amazing.
Amazing.
So
Is this procedure covered by insurance by any chance?

Jamie Mustard  01:00:37 
It isn't, but it's actually a not a very expensive procedure compared to the cost of talk therapy, the cost of all the other things that you could be doing out there. Compared to hyperbaric.
You can there's a it's typically I think it's probably in the two to three thousand dollar range.
But you don't have but it but then but the amount of gain
or I don't know if I wanna use that word, but the amount of

Lorilee Binstock  01:01:00 
Benefit. Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  01:01:01 
benefit,
change, relief, comfort
is kind of hard to
It's it's it's too unbelievable. You know, it's it's
it's it's I mean, it's it's it's like it's you just I was nervous to do it, Lolly, because I'm an artist, and I thought if my angst goes away, will I be able to create?

Lorilee Binstock  01:01:23 
Oh, yes. That's a very yeah. That's a very legitimate concern as an artist.

Jamie Mustard  01:01:27 
Yeah. But the yeah. But the thing is, like you know, think about it like but here's what actually happened. That was my concern. But here's what happened. If you're stuck in fight or flight and you think there's a tiger every second of the day, you're not gonna be able to experience emotion. You're not gonna cry during a movie,
or have lovely moments with people. If you feel like a tiger is about to eat you all the time, you're concerned with a tiger. These mere nerves in your neck are lying to your brain.
So when that when that went away and I was no longer in fire flight,
I was ex my joy
My ability to experience emotion was just freed,
and it made me a far better artist.

Lorilee Binstock  01:02:05 
Wow.
Well, I you know, I'm just I am bothered by the fact that there's so many effective treatments I feel like that are out there. And this being a

Jamie Mustard  01:02:06 
Yep.

Lorilee Binstock  01:02:15 
a huge one
that insurance doesn't cover, but they'll they cover talk therapy for twenty, thirty years.
Makes you wonder.
But, yes, this is is this something that anyone's, like, lobbying for for for insurance to say, hey. This is
mental health is a huge problem,
you know, in our country and worldwide. You know, this is something that that should be covered for for
the majority of people who probably need it the most are probably the ones that who wouldn't be able to spend
you know, two thousand, three thousand dollars on it. You know, this this is this is this is my concern with psychedelic work or I mean, I'm ketamine is not my my
one of the things that I advocate for, but, I mean, you know, the other stuff is illegal. But once it does become legal, you know, the insurance is is probably not going to cover it, especially immediately, and they're not even covering ketamine, which is legal.
So is this something that, you know,
somebody is is mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  01:03:14 
Oh, okay. It's a great question. It's a great question. And I will say that I'm a massive fan of ketamine.
Okay?
And the reason I'm a fan of ketamine is because of how it works. What you know, I'm not a fan of the disassociate associative state. I don't think that's how it works. A lot of people would disagree with me. Ketamine,
the way that doctor Lip Bob, if you were here, would describe it,
is
like fertilizer for nerve growth in the brain.

Lorilee Binstock  01:03:41 
Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  01:03:41 
So a lot of people that have
that are having mental issues
You know, when I was on that call with Daniel, I kept using the term mental illness or something. He looked at me really sour one time, and he said, please. Don't use that term. Please stop.
And I said, why? What's wrong with it? He goes, well, it's not true. It's not no one has that.
I said, well, it's stigmatizing,
and it's inhumane, and it's not true. And I said, well, we what what do you use? And he said brain health issues. Let's just call it brain health issues.

Lorilee Binstock  01:04:15 
That's legit. Yeah.

Jamie Mustard  01:04:16 
Yeah. So so, you know, Nathaniel's been scanning brains
since nineteen eighty nine. His whole thing was when he started and he was a considered, you know, an out outsider for a long time and had a opposed, you know, even a quack. As the brain science has come in the last ten years, he's been hailed as a genius and hero.
Okay? And
but, basically, his view was, you know, if your arm hurts and I'm gonna get to the insurance, thing. I just wanna give this kind of entry to it. If your arm hurts or your leg hurts, you x-ray it. Somebody acts crazy, and you know one's looking at people's brains when they act crazy, he thought that made no sense. And that's why in nineteen eighty nine, over thirty years ago, he started scanning brains. In the last thirty years, it's made him the most famous psychiatrist in America that probably drugs people the least. His thing on drugs on on
on psychotropics
is when you use a psychotropic, which can be effective to give somebody relief,
you're creating a problem to solve a problem. The psychotropic
changes your brain so that you need it. So now you have two problems.
That he thinks you know, so
But
so he's got a massive dataset of what of what
of
two almost two hundred thousand brain scans. So one of the things that we know is we know that alcohol ravages the brain
in terms of blood flow and other toxicities. With

Lorilee Binstock  01:05:38 
Right.

Jamie Mustard  01:05:40 
THC is even worse.
So we freed up marijuana. It's legal in the state of Oregon where I live, but
it actually ravages the brain and creates all sorts of
mental
problems in terms of this the anxiety,
and
and then you need it just to feel normal, and you're destroying your brain.
Okay?
So all I'm interested in is the data science. But back to this insurance question,
right now, this NYU study is being done. The army's been studying for years. So there's lots of incredible studies. There's one sixty minutes. There was a sixty minutes episode five, ten years ago that talked about the army study.
But the right now, the the the
there's a a study being done in FMRI
or an FMRI study being done in NYU that makes this unequivocally
undeniable.
So I don't think we're far away from the insurance companies approving this. Also, the the doctor is connected to a nonprofit charity.
Called Race PTSD
now,
and they're paying for treatment for a phenomenal amount of people. So you can apply to to that. But what I would say is,
you know, get the invisible machine book, understand that a huge part of the book is explaining how this relates to all the other incredible therapeutics out there. I believe psilocybin works. We don't have a lot of data on the long term effects of it. But with with the DSR,
there's no down there I don't wanna say there's no real downside. You get all of the gain. You get it instantly.
And you don't have to worry about
you know, I've had people tell me they do psilocybin and they have a really bad experience on what psychological or same thing with ketamine, which I'm a fan of. So this is all the upside with none of the downside,
and you yeah, I had a doctor one time, a military doctor that was telling me that,
you know, that there you know, this wasn't the only treatment, and I was overselling it and blah blah blah blah blah blah.
And at Fort Bragg, and I and I said to her, okay.
Let me ask you a question.
Say somebody was in real trouble, and they weren't feeling well. And they can and then you have every
modality at what your disposal to give them. What should they do first?
And she said,
well, they should do the DSR first
because then we that they would get so far in so little time with no downside,
that it would it makes everything else more effective. So what we're finding is that people that reset the It's the difference between physical therapy and a broken leg,
Laura Lee.
You physical therapy is gonna be far more effective if you reset the leg. You wouldn't do physical therapy over a broken mic. So you're gonna find that if you do psilocybin,
where you do hyperbaric,
where you do talk therapy,
These things go exponentially
faster and better and have more far more efficacy if you do a d s DSR first.
The my most there's a again, all of this is parsed apart in the book, the Invisalign.
The Temple of that book is a guy named Trevor Beenan,
who is
a guy that I was afraid of for about a year, who's now one of my best friends, and I was afraid of him.
I was afraid of him because I interviewed him at Fort Bragg.
He is a guy that was molested by a stepfather for eight years from eight to sixteen. The guy went to jail.
He shot up medical heroin in Afghanistan.
He killed people. He's seen people killed. And for thirty years, he was homicidal towards a stepfather in suicidal. The only thing keeping him alive
was
his wife and his children.
This guy just hit just wanted to die. And so when I met him, I interviewed him for three hours of Fort Bragg, was the hardest interview I ever did. He started calling me wanting to talk, and I did not want that. I didn't want he wanted to send me stuff. I didn't want him having my address. I was terrified of this guy when I got back to Portland after that trip before Greg.
The you the military does not want special forces doesn't want crazy special operators out there. So there's they get more resources than regular army. They they had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, trying to
giving Trevor, everything you could possibly reimagine, e m d r, every therapy, the the greenberry foundation,
the military would pay for him to get better. Nothing worked. He was suicidal
and homicidal towards his stepfather.
After that interview, it took me six months to get her to Chicago,
That was eighteen months ago, Trevor's just gone back to being a person. And

Lorilee Binstock  01:10:15 
No. Wow.

Jamie Mustard  01:10:17 
and the and, you know, and and what's and and, you know, you you would never know there's anything wrong with him. He looks like a guy that would be playing he he looks like an actor that would play a special forces hero in a movie.
He's just a good looking white guy. You know? But he was beating him the Latin kings at eleven

Lorilee Binstock  01:10:33 
Yeah.

Jamie Mustard  01:10:35 
and grew up in poverty outside of Chicago, but you would never know it from looking at him.
And so that so three months ago, he's doing ten in Portland,
He came to addition for Ted in Portland a few months ago, and this guy that I didn't wanna even know before he did the DSR
stayed in my house.

Lorilee Binstock  01:10:55 
Well, wow.

Jamie Mustard  01:10:55 
Yeah. Yeah. So
yeah. So so the so that's how I I the the way I explained in terms of other therapies is set the leg, and then all these other amazing modalities out there will be so much more effective.

Lorilee Binstock  01:11:10 
You really have me.
I'm like, after this conversation, I'm going to be googling where this is this treatment is available because I am extremely
intrigued because
Yes. I've done, you know, the psilocybin,
the MDMA,
and
it has worked wonders for me. I was able to get off of all my SSM our eyes. And
but there, you know, there are moments when I
I I feel like my nervous system just gets goes haywire, you know, after like, four or five months after I've done it. So I'm wondering, like, am I I should I try this DSR
treatment?
And then continue along my IFS therapy and, you know, whatever else that that, you know, I'm doing now.
And, yeah, I'm I'm extremely
intrigued. Where can we find more information about where
this is available?

Jamie Mustard  01:12:02 
Okay. Well well, can can I comment on what you just said about yourself? And then I'll tell you.

Lorilee Binstock  01:12:05 
Yes. Please.

Jamie Mustard  01:12:08 
Listen.
You're
any other thing that you're doing, you're mitigating against it. These things work. Like, yoga works.
We're also not meant to live in artificial cities and virtual environments.
So this system is a very useful system
if they were in a tiger infested jungle, being stuck in fight or fight is actually very good. We actually it makes sense.
That
trauma is not a disorder. It makes sense that it's a physical injury because we would all have to have an identical response to fire flight or to trauma
with fire flight if we're gonna survive as a species. It doesn't make any sense that it would be a disorder. Okay? We you were of a survival species. We have to have a homogeneous uniform response

Lorilee Binstock  01:12:41 
Mhmm.

Jamie Mustard  01:12:48 
to survival or we don't survive.
K?
But, you know, what you're doing when you do yoga,
psilocybin I've seen wonders with psilocybin. And hyperbaric wonders, but a lot of that is your minute it's mitigation.
Like, you have to do yoga. You have to run every day. Nature is incredible.
You know, we're we're you know, I find, you know, nature helps mitigate against this, but we don't live in most of us don't live in natural environments anymore, so we don't have that mitigator.

Lorilee Binstock  01:13:14 
Right.

Jamie Mustard  01:13:15 
Right?
So
you can kind of reduce it and bring it down through holistic health. But the only way to reset it is to reset it. Okay?
Again,
the the Stella center. Go to I I think it's is it stellar center dot com?

Lorilee Binstock  01:13:33 
I might be able to find it.

Jamie Mustard  01:13:34 
Yeah. Let me

Lorilee Binstock  01:13:35 
Sela center dot com. Yep. You're right.

Jamie Mustard  01:13:37 
yeah. Yeah. Or go to talk yeah. I would also highly recommend

Lorilee Binstock  01:13:38 
Excellent.

Jamie Mustard  01:13:42 
if you're not getting this from Stella Center, I don't work for them.
They don't pay me. K. I'm not a
I just note the only place that has the modern protocols, which I'll call the stellar protocols, is the stellar center.
I if you're not getting this,
if you're not going to sell a center, you're not getting this. That's why I had to send
my first cohort of people two years ago from Fort Bragg from Woamath, the most advanced medical hospital a military hospital in the world, I had to send my guys to Chicago.
So first of all, Larlie, where do you live?

Lorilee Binstock  01:14:16 
I live in Washington, DC.

Jamie Mustard  01:14:18 
Okay. Well, they're

Lorilee Binstock  01:14:20 
There's one in New York, I see.

Jamie Mustard  01:14:20 
I would highly recommend
Yeah. I do go to New York. No. Like like, you you're like, first of all, let's talk offline,
but I I would I want you to go to Chicago and get it from doctor Lipoff.

Lorilee Binstock  01:14:27 
Yes.

Jamie Mustard  01:14:32 
Unequivocally.
Okay? And if you do that, I'll get you a discount. Okay?

Lorilee Binstock  01:14:36 
Well, yes. Well, let's let let's chat after this conversation. She said, yes. That's a very

Jamie Mustard  01:14:39 
Okay. Okay. If you decide, there's pressure.

Lorilee Binstock  01:14:42 
no. I I'm very intrigued. I I'm
trust me. I I mean, from where I was five years ago is just exponentially better. I don't recognize who I was, but I do have these moments where You know? I'm I just tore my ACL. I've just I'm recovering from ACL surgery, and I was single parenting for, like, a week, and my children just the sound of my children's voices up stairs screaming
would, like, send me into, like, this, like,
what is happening? I'm just freaking out over no reason. It's really because and I'm and I imagine myself and I think about Peter Levine's book where I was, like, maybe I'm I feel like a wounded animal
with
the just this this slight sound of, like, danger
or any issues
sends my nervous system, like, off the charts.
And this was over the last week.

Jamie Mustard  01:15:29 
Yeah.
One hundred percent one of the things I hear over and over, and this is true for me,
is, you know, that moment where you just react, that's a physiological response. That is an overactive sympathetic nervous system. That's what went away when I got this. So you get that extra five seconds. You get that extra ten seconds where you're not having a physiological

The Unspoken Root Cause

This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, April 19th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.

Today's guest is Mandy Harvey, a global leader in trauma healing.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:00:34 

Welcome. I'm Loriee Binstock

And this is a trauma survivor, thriver's podcast.

Hello, everyone. My apologies

Thank you, for so much for joining me today live on FireSide chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual on and time your home loyalty been stuck. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest

question if By requesting to hop on stage, you're sending a message in the chat box, I will try to get to you but I do I ask everyone be respectful. Today's guest is Mandy

rv she is a global leader in trauma healing.

Maybe, thank you so much for joining me today.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:03:20 

You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:23 

Well, I do want to talk

to... You know where I wanna talk to you about chronic illness

and trauma in that connection. We've had folks

talk a little bit about that. But you also have a

program and a protocol to actually solve it all. So

for for people who haven't heard anyway previous

podcast. Could you imagine

talk about the connection between chronic illness and trauma.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:03:51 

Yeah. Absolutely. Well,

what's very interesting about chronic health issues

as we become adults once we start to develop them,

it's not in uncommon. I think we all know someone or more than one person who might

suffer with some type of chronic health issue or autoimmune condition.

It is a very common

experience. But there is a correlation between

developing that later in life and what we experience

in our early childhood. And

What's really interesting to mean

is that our protocols currently

to

care for our chronic health issues to care for our our autoimmune condition

are often focused on our diet, which is an important element. It's

focus on our lifestyle, which is also important and perhaps some medication

But the people that I work with off

and don't resolve their health issues or don't

feel a sense of relief with those three pillars.

And in my own hinge

of being a functional nutritional therapy practitioner.

And someone who is also experiencing practice

I started to really dive into the

under eigenvalues of why would I like get... Why would someone struggle

to improve their health when they're eating the right things.

When they are

moving their bodies in the right way, and they're feeling some relief, but they're really

not able to get over the edge of feeling

like they're able to thrive in their life. And as I started to, I need cover

and discover kind of the correlation between our early childhood experiences

in our house leader in life, that really showed to

help me see this many piece that we often don't.

We don't include in our protocols we're not told about it, and That was also the key

for myself

and it comes down to

what I like to talk about in terms of emotions in our

immune system. So emotions in general, they have one fundamental

function. And that really our emotions that you think about them is

to allow what is healthy, what is nourishing and what a supportive

for us, allowing my into our life and

Our emotions can also help us keep out what is

toxic and dangerous. They can become this filter for us. They can be

this

kind of this roadmap map if you will to help and and know which what

helpful for us and what isn't helpful. But

that is also the role of our immune system. Our immune system does exactly the

thing It's to keep out what's toxic and to let in what's nourishing

lighting in the nutrients of vitamins, the healthy bacteria,

and to keep out and destroy

what isn't healthy and a port of?

So the emotional in the immune system are exactly the same function.

So when we experience something traumatic in childhood, or even if we

well, meaning, parents, but they unfortunately just

didn't meet our needs as a child, And we learn that

we need to refresh our emotions or we learn to

hold shame about who we are and how we're

how

how we're feeling or we are taught that we are

you know, we believe are bad or wrong because of experiences we've had in childhood.

We start to refresh ourselves physically, and that can have an impact

on our immune system. So the more that we learn to

sorry emotions and the more that we impress ourselves just in general,

the more impact it has in our immune.

So when we going a little bit deeper in the

childhood when we have a traumatic experience in childhood or we have ongoing

traumatic experiences like abuse or an neglect or

emotionally unavailable.

Caretaker or anything in the realm of that.

We

our bodies go through a process to activate our

stress hormone. So say we experience them.

Fall our body goes to the process of activating our adrenals and activating our

hormones months

that process is meant to help us ready our body to

site a threat to run away from the threat or and

you know, get ourselves to safety but as the child

oftentimes, if we're experiencing abuse on a regular basis, we

or any of these instructions circumstances would... I just shared. We're not able to

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:48 

Mhmm.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:08:47 

run away or fight our

abuse in most cases. And so

the body cannot turn off those functions once it has started.

And what happens is one that trauma

as a child gets stuck in our body and in our psyche, but to that

stress of that trauma. And the

activation of our stress hormones.

To ready our body to fight or flee that process

start to impact our biology, and it

essentially, makes us more susceptible to getting stressed.

Faster. So if you think about we experience something like that in childhood, and as we

become an adult. We may... If we have not,

healed those experiences and we're we've learned to

of physically that stress response becomes faster and found

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:41 

Mm-mm

 

Mandy Harvey  00:09:42 

share and faster. We experience stress an adult

And eventually, our bodies just get out. We can only handle so much.

Before our bodies burn out, and then we start to develop

these chronic health issues because of the impact, that that's stressed.

Had had on our immune system and the

be rep refreshing of those emotions and the energy of those emotions in our body starts to

deteriorate our health, and then we start to develop these health issues.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:09 

Wow, you know, I

manic experiencing was

so vital in my healing and understanding

trauma when I was first

seeking help in twenty twenty and residential treatment

 

Mandy Harvey  00:10:30 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:29 

experiencing was a big part of it.

And so I'm able to kind of

understand that I obviously have my moments where I've

I I can't really think logically and rash

about what's actually happening in my brain, But

you know, I I think you know this. I I actually tour my Acl recently.

And I just got surgery a couple weeks ago.

And my husband has got as in a way

 

Mandy Harvey  00:10:56 

Oh,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:56 

So I I feel like my stress level is

so heightened, and I feel like I have been so just

 

Mandy Harvey  00:11:02 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:05 

so completely reactive with my children, and I realized

when I was... I just like, downstairs stairs, and we live in

you know... It's like three stories and Capitol Hill very narrow and

tall.

And my children I heard them on the third floor, screaming.

And, like, immediately, I just felt like everything just

ten up because, typically, if they're screaming, I'm like, okay.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:11:31 

Yes.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:30 

I'll be there. But now, but I'm like, oh my gosh. It's gonna take me forever to get

the stairs right now. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen.

And I started getting stressed out and angry and upset. And I... You know, I just

imagine a wounded animal in the forest and just like

 

Mandy Harvey  00:11:43 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:45 

being wounded and, like, just the sound of wrestling will like,

really heighten their awareness of what's what's happening.

Am I am I going to die right now? Because that's that's the feeling I was getting.

But, yes, no. I I just

but that just an understanding of

from so experiencing has been so vital.

For me,

and I wanna get into how you're working that into the programs that

you're providing for people, but I do wanted to I do wanna ask, like,

if you are comfortable in telling your personal story because I know for

for me, most of the... The my my

podcast in the trauma survivor driver's podcast. And

the majority of people, if not all of the people who come on really

their they're

gift of helping people from healing their own their own toe

 

Mandy Harvey  00:12:38 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:38 

their own experiences and trauma that they have experienced. So

 

Mandy Harvey  00:12:41 

Oh,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:42 

I was wondering if you were were comfortable

and talking about your own experience.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:12:44 

Yeah. Absolutely.

Just similar with you, Semantic experiencing was a huge

modality of healing for me that really

got me to the other side. I feel like really kinda helped push me

the on other side of the healing pendulum, if you will.

But I always... I say that I was born into

I was born to a single mother

who was operating from her own

trauma

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:12 

Mhmm.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:13:15 

and she had men come in and out of our life.

And those men weren't the greatest, and were often very abusive.

Kidney

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:24 

Yeah.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:13:25 

So from a very young age, I experience

sexual abuse from these men

and from the age of five, to the age of fourteen,

and

my relationship with my mother was one that she was not home.

She's not around very often. She was single parent in most of the years and

she was working multiple jobs. So I became

I had to become very independent to just serve

five, and she was not available physically. Most of the time,

So I learned to just kinda take care of myself and live in this

very un unsettling.

Level. I'm loving if you will home.

And from a very early age learning to detach from my body.

Because so many things that happened to me, I just

didn't wanna feel anything and just learned to survive.

And what I learned, how I learned to survive was and

very important because I have sure I survived it. I've gotten to the other side of it.

But at the around the age of thirteen, she married

An individual who I was a police office

and was very abusive and manipulative.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:42 

Mm-mm.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:14:43 

And took the abuse to a whole new level.

With me. And

would use his power to abuse

more and more and more.

And eventually, I

told someone in school, what was going on, I told them what was happening

in the sexual abuse I was experiencing from this individual.

And

social workers got involved, You know, the whole process and started to unravel

And I became

Very nervous about

talking to my mom about this because I had already talked to her once.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:26 

Mm-mm

 

Mandy Harvey  00:15:25 

And told her what had been happening why he'd been doing and

she said, you know, all talk to him. I'll make sure

he, you know, he stopped that.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:37 

Yeah.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:15:37 

And nothing changed. So when I talk to

show that day after speaking to a account school and then telling me

we will need to report this.

In social worker will get involved and most likely, he'll be arrested and

you know, all the things that happen as a result of that.

I got real nervous. And I know well, can I please, you know, touch my mom

before you make that call, I believe it was a Friday or or

a Thursday was towards the end of a week? And

my mom's pattern and I every day

does she at home from work because we go in this walk.

It was the only moment in our day that was semi my human.

Where we could tap into some sort of connection. And so at the end of that walk,

I shared with her, Hey. This is what happened at school today. I

shared this with counselor. They told me blah blah blah blah blah.

She

turned me with rage in her eyes.

And anger and said how could you do

destroy our family

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:38 

Oh my gosh.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:16:41 

How could you do that chance?

And it was in the moment.

That was a pivotal moment in my life because I took on the beliefs

that my intuition was wrong.

That

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:54 

Yeah. Question.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:16:56 

I didn't know how to make good decisions for myself in that.

And, you know, throughout my adult life, I

gave away all dungeon making power over my life because of that moment.

So it became a pivotal moment in my healing process, but

what happened after that was a couple days later,

That was reported. He was put into jail. He

was released out on bond. There was

restraining order. So we... My mom and I were essentially, you know,

kind of navigating this world. I was

send to the police I was picked up at school when day by a police

officer and interrogated for hours on end.

I think they were trying to break me or

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:43 

No.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:17:45 

if I was lying about what had... I had a experienced,

Of course, I was not, and that was also another traumatic moment having to

relive and talk through exactly what I'd happened to me

to two men in this room without a social worker.

Without any other support in the room it was very traumatic.

After that occurred a couple days later,

I came home from school and found suicide letter.

From both him and my mother. And

they were gone. No nowhere to be found.

So I was... I moved in with some family members.

And it was a a couple days later where they were found. They had taken their life.

Shop themselves.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:34 

Oh my goodness.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:18:35 

Yeah.

And that became also

huge moment of evidence for me about my decision making

really wrong because it created such destruction. My

entire your life changed in a moment.

From

1. No longer having a mother and, you know,

in the at the in the early years, I wanted her

even though she was or not,

emotionally available even though she was not neglect, even though she was alarming and abused

happened to me and putting me in these very unhealthy situations. I still wanted her.

Choose my mom.

And

you know, that's the interesting dynamics when we're children that I

attachment versus authenticity.

We attach to our caregivers regardless because we need that

need we need to feel like we belong some way

And that was really hard. It was very hard that you can imagine.

I start a therapy you started Em or Amd about

Yep.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:37 

In. Oh, wow.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:19:39 

Right away to start to work on the guilt.

Because I felt like, I was the one that pulled the trigger

essentially, I took our lives.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:48 

Well,

 

Mandy Harvey  00:19:49 

So I spent years I took my high school years

going through Ed,

and about my sophomore year, I started to get really just

done. I felt

I didn't wanna talk about it anymore. I didn't... My body started to really a

and hurt and all I could think about, which I just wanna see my mom again. And

I attempted to take my life when I was fifteen years old.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:14 

Mhmm

 

Mandy Harvey  00:20:13 

I had a near death experience

I took and swallowed a whole bottle of sleeping pills one day at school.

Pass out.

The only thing I remember is waking up to this

beautiful, like, super warm

super loving golden

light, essentially.

Like, the most powerful feeling you could ever imagine and

time it by a thousand.

And I can remember thinking, oh my gosh. I've made it. I'm gonna get to see my mom again. I just

like, you waited

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:46 

Oh my gosh.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:20:48 

was because I had missed her so much.

And I remember thinking, oh, gosh.

Can't wait. To can't wait. When do I get to see her?

And I felt hand

I felt pressure on my chest, and I was being pushed back away.

And the only thing I heard was it's not your time.

And I welcome

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:13 

Wow. That's powerful.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:21:15 

it was so powerful. I woke up to the end of the

day. Kids were washing out of school, and I was like, what

happened.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:25 

Yeah

 

Mandy Harvey  00:21:26 

I was just there. I was just there bike

what's wrong with me? Why can I just do this?

I made it home. I I gotta ride

home, and I started to loosen. I started to

have these really strange reactions to the sleep

being told in my body, and I was shaking. I was just

like, out of my mind and called nine eleven one, and they

put me into Icu for a couple of days.

And then admitted me to a mental institution for period of

time so that I could undergo some intense

treatment and was diagnosed with Ptsd.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:09 

mm-mm

 

Mandy Harvey  00:22:10 

Put on some medication.

Some antidepressants, and that really became him intense

treatment and therapy for

a period of time, and then I continued my therapy

outside of that till the end of

high school. You know, I graduated high school, and I graduated

treatment and I was like, right. Life here I come.

But what I didn't realize was, you know, the layers and layers

and layer and layers of that experience.

I had gone through four years of therapy and thought, Okay. Like, I had to

touched it all. Right? Like, I'm good. But

as an adult, I started to become very upset.

With things being perfect. I started to

affect my outer world.

Like a magazine.

That you would see, you know, like, the cover of, like,

home and garden or, you know, the

cover or, you know, when you look at Crate barrel, and you see all of their

sing so perfectly, like that essentially was me

in my life, I

I perfected my outward appearance, my outward home, I was

you know, married with kids and everything was perfect, but on the inside,

I felt like I was crumbling and trying to hide it.

I kept pretending, but everything was fine, pretending that

all good. But really underneath, I was starting to

experience anxiety.

Major stress. And the more I felt just

heated within my body, the more I perfected and got obsessed.

With making everything exactly as it should be on the howard.

Were in the outward world.

In my twenties, in my late twenties, I started to have flashback

to my abuse as a child, and so I went through another round

multiple years of intense therapy.

In my late thirties

you know, all these years, I've been in and out them unfair of therapy, mostly top

therapy except for

in my teenage years, I went to em r. But in my late thirties,

all of a sudden in I started feeling

and

rage in my body and

the way I... I have an example of what this slips like

for me, and that was my daughter, my youngest.

Essentially beautiful she she's my teacher in

many ways.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:40 

Yes.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:24:42 

She has this beautiful range of expressing emotion.

She can express bliss and joy.

And I'll go all the way to the other side with rage and anger.

And she just expresses so freely and

in the early year, she was about five around the time that I started having

this anger started to build up in my body.

It's very was very uncomfortable for me to watch her be so

angry at times. And I would try to... I would try to like,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:17 

Yeah.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:25:14 

do everything I could to make sure she wasn't angry. Like, how can I clean her?

So I'd never have to hear her screaming because that literally sends

like pain ting throughout my entire body.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:27 

Mhmm.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:25:28 

And there was one moment where

she was having this massive temper tantrum

and I, like, screaming and yelling and shots with

angry at me for... I'm sure the stupid is of things.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:41 

As children sometimes do.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:25:42 

Yeah. Totally.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:44 

Yes.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:25:45 

I'm sitting... I'm at the kitchen washing the dishes.

With my back to her, and I can steal this fire

rolling through my body from my feet

to my head, and it just hot, and it's burning, and I'm like,

oh my god. It she needs to shut up. I I

I was, like, what I'm trying to breathe? I'm trying to, like, okay. You know, I can.

I can't do anything. I just kinda like a letter her ride this out, but it was like, this

this movement was happening in my body, and I cannot control it in it

poof out through the top of my head.

Explosion I turned around, and I had this glass in my hand that I was washing and I

through and another feet, and I yelled to shot.

Showed up. And I remember seeing her face was like,

massive.

Shock and fear. Like, oh my god. Mom never yelled at me.

What to happen?

She's crying. I'm crying, and I'm like,

this isn't not who I am. Like, I don't want to be

like, throwing glasses of my children. Like, what

That's not me. That's not me.

And I knew something was going on. I just

could not understand or had the language I'd really understand it. So

that's what really became the catalyst for going and seeking soma thematic

experiencing therapy. And really,

learning how to unpack

the story and the energy and the emotions and all the parts

of me that were so stuck in my body from all the things

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:27:23 

Wow.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:27:22 

experienced as a child, and I took about a couple

you know, two and a half years. But then those two and a half years,

I healed more than I did in the last twenty years. Of

talk Therapy, and that's when I was like, oh gosh. Learning this about this connection

in our body and how our health is impacted.

How our relationships become impacted how we

the refreshing of our cells and all the ways really impacts

and impacts us at such a deep level.

That really for me was a light bulb. Like, oh my gosh.

People need to know him about that. I need to know about the the how

trauma at such an early age.

Can get stuck in our body.

And

you know, that stuck energy that stuck

part of us, wants to be healed and tries to be healed.

But

you know, over time as we don't really live that it shows up in healthy

shoes. I show that this relationship issues is shows up an and it just

for me with all the things.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:29 

Wow. That's power. You know, I've

 

Mandy Harvey  00:28:32 

Right.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:33 

I found myself in your shoes with my children

I think it's hard if you if you've experienced trauma,

your your your children are their your best teachers

 

Mandy Harvey  00:28:44 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:43 

sometimes it's hard to see what they're trying to show you.

Is really, really hard, and and I'm I'm realizing that, you know,

 

Mandy Harvey  00:28:54 

Or.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:52 

I'm an internal family systems therapy.

Which is it's it's amazing. And and, you know, it's

it's it it is really hard to see my daughter because

in a way, she's like, a reflection of the things that I really hated about myself.

Right? Like, the, you know, the self loading of why, you know,

my parents would not let me feel.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:29:17 

Yes.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:15 

God forbid. I cried, gone from head, like,

I showed motion and

you know? And I'm trying to give my children the space for them to

show their emotion

there times when I look at my daughter, and I'm like, oh my god. That's me That is

 

Mandy Harvey  00:29:34 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:33 

1. And this is not good. Because I have not

 

Mandy Harvey  00:29:36 

Oh,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:37 

come to terms with that part of me yet.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:29:40 

Yeah

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:40 

But I'm I'm... It's the awareness.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:29:42 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:44 

That I'm realizing.

So the... And, you know,

for me as well with the sad experiencing

for me, I was like, oh my gosh. Because you, I think it was

my third episode

of my podcast were right. We're at ninety three.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:30:02 

Alright.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:02 

But my third episode of of my podcast I talked about schematic

 

Mandy Harvey  00:30:06 

That

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:05 

experiencing because I had never heard about traumatic experiencing

prior to my treatment.

And just not understand

 

Mandy Harvey  00:30:14 

Oh,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:14 

you know, understanding that that energies

 

Mandy Harvey  00:30:18 

It is

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:17 

trapped in your body is I feel like it's everything because it's like well, whoa

 

Mandy Harvey  00:30:22 

yeah

Or

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:21 

then you can name it, and then you can understand it.

And then you can find the root to it.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:30:26 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:27 

And and now what you're saying is

it's related to all these chronic health issues.

And you're right. I didn't really. Even even post

experience in free. I didn't even realize that

I used to go to the host to the every single year as of a child.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:30:44 

And

yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:45 

For for stomach issues. And they'd be like, oh, it's gastro arthritis.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:30:48 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:50 

And

after a while, like, wait a minute. There's this correlate, like,

I I've been dealing with the this this trauma from

childhood sexual abuse and

And then all of a sudden, once I started actually getting help,

I I haven't been to the hospital

sense for

 

Mandy Harvey  00:31:10 

That's great.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:11 

for my gastro that I was there for a

for every single year,

at least once a year.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:31:16 

Yes.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:19 

It's crazy.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:31:20 

That's really... It. Yeah. It's similar. Like, I a diagnosed with

Ibs when I was a eighteen team,

and I always had adjusted issues always

And it makes sense now we hold a lot of emotion and

you know, At least I do. I hold a lot of emotion in my gut.

And what I started to really notice when I became

what I shouldn't become more aware of the idea that we

we can hold and press these emotions in our body and even these

experiences can get stuck in our body. What I started really noticing is when

I was still working in Corporate America. Is that I would have a stressful day

And by the end of the day, my stomach would be so bloated.

From

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:09 

Mm-mm

 

Mandy Harvey  00:32:10 

stress and emotion of, like, how... Like, again, that perfection

archive, I wanted to be perfect at my job.

And so I pushed myself and would take on more than I should never said no.

And worked long hours and

you know, tried to be this wonder woman who had the job and the career and

kids and, you know, just was killing it all places, but I

mate meant I held a lot of stress. And by the end of the day,

it would look like I was five months pregnant. My stomach would be

So so bloated

with emotion. I'd have to lay down in my bathroom and just like,

train slowly

you know, breathe and start to

you know, reconnect to my body again. And that was really the moment

I was like, oh my gosh. I'm holding so much stress.

In my body, but it not just the stress from the work.

It's it's the stress of here.

Of being chronically stressed, you know, from the moment.

Have was a child.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:16 

So how do... How did you heal or or work?

 

Mandy Harvey  00:33:18 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:20 

Under Ibm.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:33:21 

Yeah.

In years, it's been a it's spinach a journey age like, with healing,

healing from my past, but it started with

it started with a semantic experiencing really

helping me understand the language of my nervous

in the language. Like, I did... I spent a lot of time really assessing

how my body felt in certain in different

experiences and around different people so that I could just start to understand

when I feel like I can't say no, my body feels this

play when I feel relaxed, my body feels this way.

So I became sort become this detective of, like,

the language of my nervous, how it was

interacting with my environment how was trying to cut

my attention. And

I started to work on healing those parts

within me using if and using thematic experiencing.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:34:23 

Mhmm.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:34:25 

Healing those parts that help the pain in the wounds.

And working on integrating them back into my

whole body. And then I started working with a functional practitioner.

To care for the physical

aspects of that,

of that stress, which was my ibs.

I worked on

changing my diet, and my diet has changed

over the years, and I think there is no one size that's all for anybody

that's what I've learned through my own nutritional education as well in my own

experiences. You know, when I first started then, I was eating paleo, but

today, I don't eat paleo modified

form of it. But I just took out

just like... Just like with emotion, I would

I would cope with my

emotional swings in my stressful days with eating.

I was an emotional eater, and I would eat

the sugar and the carbs and

the treats and all the scenes. And when I started working on that,

it really started to shift the diet that I was able to maintain

that was helpful in healing for my body.

So I worked on that part that emotionally eater her her a lot.

And at first, I just you know, when I would feel stressed and wanna

eat, like, pink, waffles and syrup was the thing that I wanted to eat every day when I was

stressed.

So there would be moments where I'd wanna eat that, and I would let myself

eat it, but I'd invite that part that emotional either part in with me.

To join me. And I would, you know, just have this, like, internal dialogue with

part

and I listened to her about how stressed she was. And I learned that

I was a teenager, and I lost my mom

and went through all of that. That's really when that part showed up.

That's really when food became a

coping mechanism I became something that issues my myself.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:29 

Did it feel like it was a part that you could control a lot more?

Than anything else.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:36:35 

When I started... Yeah. I mean, I I feel like

that part. Well, that purpose felt uncontrollable at first.

You know, when I was going through the emotional swings, I felt like that part

took over my life. You know, and I would just rav

anything and everything. And once I felt better then it felt like, I had more clarity and I could

live my life. But as I started to work on healing them,

card.

I felt like I had more control of the

situation. So, you know,

couple weeks or months into working with that part when I would get stressed

I'd noticed the need or desire to twenty emotionally eat.

And then I could place my hand on my heart, which is I always felt her in my chest.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:37:21 

Mhmm.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:37:22 

I was... When I felt stressed and wanted to emotionally eat, my chest would feel

tight. So I placed my hand there and I tell, hey, honey. I know it were really strong.

Right now. Like, I get it. I know why you wanna emotionally heat.

But I also know that doesn't make us feel any better.

So let's go sit outside and watch the sunset or put our feet in the grass.

And that part really liked

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:37:45 

Wow.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:37:45 

as an alternative to eating. So I

switched out the

more healthy way of coping with my

stressful and stress and emotions.

And the more that I did that, the more that I stuck with that, when I changed my diet,

to accommodate the healing of my gut.

I was able to stick with it even during time of

stress because I had really done the work to

to heal that part to build a relationship with that part.

Major you.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:18 

Wow. That that's incredible. That's a great. I'd love internal family systems hair.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:38:24 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:23 

In understanding your part.

But that that is that is a very beautiful way to look. I'm, like

seeing their thinking like yeah that that that that's that should be healed too.

That should be taken care of you.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:38:35 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:35 

Well, will you

have a pro we have several programs. Right? For for

people who want to heal

themselves kind of

I I'm kind of. I'm curious to know

what are

what is what comes with these programs? What is it that you do?

From start to finish.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:38:57 

Yeah. Absolutely.

I have

I have digital courses. I

have healing sessions. I have three month long. It

experiences. I even do hiking and healing.

Journeys, but the online courses is

I have a couple of them. There's is one about Burnout,

and learning how to rewire your body and get

your life back that you can start to enjoy it again.

And I have another one that's called

which is all about aligning to the success that you want to see in your life.

These are online courses that they come with

video training sessions for me. They come with workbook.

They come with audio meditations. They come with Thematic

experiencing practices. But these ones are more self obtained.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:52 

Mhmm.

 

Mandy Harvey  00:39:54 

So that you can take your time going through them.

And, you know,

really anger into experiencing the content within them.

The anchored and success program is thirty days if you were to do a little bit every day.

So that's, like, thirty minutes a day where you're listening or watching a video.

Or listening to an audio, there might be some activity where you start to assess.

Your life in a variety of ways.

You would then have practices, like,

emotional nutrition recommendations,

mindful types of things, thematic experiencing, types of things,

ceiling trauma, you know, regulating emotions, nervous

regulation. All of my courses have like kind of

a mesh, if you will of all of those types topics.

Cinesomatic Therapy

This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, April 12th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.

Today's guest is Andrew Daniel, Author of "Awaken to Your True Self" and Director of the Center for Cinesomatic Development.

--------------
Lorilee Binstock  00:00:50 
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is a trauma survivor Thrivers Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside Chat, where you can be a part of conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Lorilee Binstock.
Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting hop on stage or sending a message in the chat box, I will try to get to you, but I do ask that everyone be respectful.
Today's guest is Andrew Daniel, author of the bestselling book, awaken to your true self,
the founder of Cinesomatics and director at the center for Cinesomatic Development.
Daniel, thank you so much for joining me today.

Andrew Daniel  00:01:48 
Thank you for having me.

Lorilee Binstock  00:01:50 
Well, you know, I was really intrigued. I you know, I've heard of, you know, somatic experiencing, which actually I really just discovered that in twenty twenty when I went into residential
treatment.
But when I heard about you, I heard I I I learned this new thing, at least in my mind, synosomatic therapy. Could you actually tell me a little bit about that?

Andrew Daniel  00:02:12 
Yeah. It it is it is very cutting edge stuff.
Basically, cinematics
let's just start with the word. So
it comes from two words,
cinema
and somatics.
So cinema somatics. So the first part is Sinesh. So in this therapy, in this it's pretty much an entire transformational
approach.
We use video.
And so we use video and movement,
and then the somatic part, the body. So we use video and movement
to watch the way people show up in their body.
And then we play that video back of them moving in their body.
And then
myself or other people in the group will give feedback about all of the unconscious,
the subconscious
patterns,
mythologies,
archetypes
that are symbolically
coming through the body. And
not only is it a feedback from the participants or myself,
but they get to see it for themselves in their own body on the video replay.
So it's a very potent feedback loop that helps people see all of the
hidden
traumas or stories or blocks
and even shadow material that's holding them back in their life.

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:36 
That's really fascinating because, you know, we
do these things. We we fiddle our hands when we we get nervous. We, you know, we even sweat.

Andrew Daniel  00:03:43 
Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:46 
We do so many different things
based on
the things we learn growing up that kind of make us feel safer, I guess, these coping mechanisms.
And I I and I that that is that is really fascinating to me because I'm assuming most people don't know what, like, their trick ticks or whatever are.
How did you actually discover this as a type of therapy?

Andrew Daniel  00:04:15 
So it's about twofold. One, I mean, on my journey of my own traumas and growing up and everything
led me
to actually a lot of
alternative
and holistic healing methods.
We didn't have
a lot of big medical insurance. We weren't into any of the pharmaceuticals,
or my parents took me to, I think, a psychologist once
But very gratefully,
I ended up
through my own self help, self
improvement journey,
came across all of these different methods. There was neuro linguistic programming. There was tapping EFT. There was acupuncture. There was hypnosis.
There was
all of these things that were actually pretty helpful for me.
And I actually got certified in different immunotherapies
and and different stuff.
And for a while, it it worked very well, and it and exposed me to whole new
world of
well, a whole new world, really.
Because because not only was it just therapy, everything in my life was changing, it was like, oh my gosh. It's not because I don't know the technique. It's because I got all this junk and stuff inside. I mean, that's getting in the way.

Lorilee Binstock  00:05:32 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:05:32 
And so that set me on a healing journey for for the past fifteen years.
And, eventually, I reached a a Plato. I I was homeless twice, even after being published. My software company did very well, and then it just stopped.
And I was wondering how and why that after
all these successes
and learning all of these spiritual
and even practical
truths and wisdoms,
I was still stuck.
There were still
many things in my life that weren't working.
And so I came across work by a a late mentor of mine who was pioneering
some of this
video and movement work. And so I learned a lot through him,
and that really exposed me to this world of
symbolic
somatic,
all this
un
not not invisible, but invisible
to many of us,

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:35 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:06:36 
information about ourselves in our body. And then so I studied under him for a few years until he passed. And then I took everything that I learned and then started
expanding upon it. So I took that
movement and video process, and I added in the cinema aspects
We use very high end cinema equipment to get a lot of data.
And then through that practice,
in my own practice, one of the things I discovered
to solidify
Sonosomatics
as my own modality
we're we're the discovery of archetypes in the body. And what I mean by this is when I would watch
clients move, and I would say something like
Alright. Okay. So you're struggling with making money
in your life. Okay.

Lorilee Binstock  00:07:24 
I wanna know more.

Andrew Daniel  00:07:25 
Right? Is yeah. Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:07:27 
This is me.

Andrew Daniel  00:07:27 
So
Yeah. So you're struggling with money in your life. Okay. Well, show me through the body
your relationship with money. What is making money look look like to you? Not don't tell me about it. Show me show me in the body. Alright. What is spending money look like?
Oh, what does having money look like? Oh, okay.
And then what I started to find is that
what people said
or thought or had an image of in their mind
didn't
always match
the way that their body felt. So it's all about the feeling, what the body feels like as it's moving.
It's not a mental,
logical analysis. We're dealing with symbolism. We're dealing with the realm of the unconscious. It's not logical and linear.
It is symbolic, metaphorical, allegorical.
And so I started to see, oh, this person, I say, show me making money.
And it takes them two minutes to start moving.
When you're standing in front of somebody on camera for two minutes,
That that for many people is like an eternity.

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:39 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:08:39 
And, also, in our own life,
If you scale that out, well, what does that mean about somebody? What does it mean about someone's relationship with making money?
If it takes them two minutes
to even start moving, where most people who are functional in it move immediately.
They'll move it in in about one or two seconds.
And so I started to notice that there were these correlations.
And then I would watch some of these people,
and I would say, alright, show me something like giving.
And then they would do something where they they would take their hands and pull it into themselves.
The the direction would be towards them, and I'm like, wait a minute.
Giving
giving objectively
should go outwards.
And so then I would say, alright. Well, what's your relationship with receiving and giving in your life? And they're like, oh, I struggle with this. And so I I started to
very, very quickly notice the correlations
between
the way that somebody represented these archetypes in their body and the actual practical practical results they were getting in their life. And then as we would begin to explore it, we would start uncovering all of this trauma. We would start uncovering all of these limitations and and
suppressed emotions. And then as we would move through those
emotions and those stories,
their movements would begin to shift, and then they would start embodying more functional archetypes
And then, you know, weeks later, they would get a raise or they they would have a gift or things in their real life actually shifted from the stuff we were doing in their body. So this was,

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:12 
No.

Andrew Daniel  00:10:21 
you know, many years of discovery and learning, and not only
working with other clients, but my own journey. I had to go through all of this process myself first before I could even see it in other people. And so that's a long story
to a short answer,
semi short as it could be.

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:42 
I I love it. I I think that's that's fascinating.
You you develop this through your own observation
and
built upon that. How long does it take
to to do this type of therapy, to observe someone, to analyze,
their archetypes
and
and and really discover all of this.

Andrew Daniel  00:11:05 
I can sit with somebody and in seconds know more about them than closest people to them in their life.
Yeah. It's it's incredibly fast.
But the reason it's fast a is because this is this is my job. I I've I've been I've been doing this.

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:22 
No.

Andrew Daniel  00:11:23 
But b, is that it is that it bypasses
the the mind. It bypasses the heady
analysis.
And so I skip. I skip all the body language I skip all of the
conscious
words that people are using, and I go below that. I go to the feeling underneath stuff.
So you can imagine
I'm sure you and everyone has has had this experience
where they meet somebody
And everything they're saying, it seems nice and friendly and okay,
but you just get this feeling like you don't trust them.

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:00 
Mhmm.
Right.

Andrew Daniel  00:12:03 
Well, in this work, I've actually figured out what those specific things are,
why
we get that hunch, why we get that gut feeling. And through the video and the movement, I can actually point it out and tell you why and show it to you on video.

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:19 
Wow. Yeah. I mean, as someone and and you did mention you've experienced trauma in your life,
most people who have experienced trauma

Andrew Daniel  00:12:28 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:28 
our empaths and can and and can read people
pretty well because they're used to reading the room to figure out if they're they're safe.
But this is I mean, this is in incredible
stuff.

Andrew Daniel  00:12:42 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:44 
And how long have have you been doing this cinematic. How long has this been you said it's been
kind of in the works for about the last fifteen years.

Andrew Daniel  00:12:54 
So fifteen years of of my journey of

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:56 
Oh, your attorney. Yeah.

Andrew Daniel  00:12:57 
yeah. Of my journey.
And so there's there's an aspect of that. Now my mentor,
he kind of pioneered just as the the the technology has only been around for a couple
decades I mean, like, two decades really
to to even be able to record this stuff. So he initially pioneered
it on, like, tapes
Ashley, like, real tapes
back in the day. And then so when I worked with him and he passed, I kind of picked up those reins
And it took me
to get from that point of that foundation
to to me turning it into actual cinematics
and the places I've taken it. It's been about
five to seven years.

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:46 
That's great.
I mean, I feel like,
you know, the difference
in what I'm learning because, you know, I I didn't even know about any about somatic experiencing.
Which obviously we we we now
know, and and most people who've dealt with trauma is that you know,
we hold it in our body,

Andrew Daniel  00:14:07 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:07 
and like you were saying, you know, somatic means the body. And
I feel like we need more modalities
that really
focus on healing
what's underneath
the things that you you can recognize
because, you know, what we've been doing for so long has been masking
all of the trauma, all of the symptoms. You know? And and and

Andrew Daniel  00:14:32 
Yeah. The symptoms. Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:35 
we now know it. That's not working.

Andrew Daniel  00:14:37 
Right.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:38 
That's that's not working at all.
So I think this this synerosomatic therapy is incredible
work. So how do you have to be where are you located? Do people have to go to you? Is this something that can be done over
video? Like, Zoom. I don't know if Zoom's you probably would have higher tech stuff than that if that were the case. But
how are people able to experience this therapy?

Andrew Daniel  00:15:07 
Yeah. It's both. So we basically have two two grades of the therapy. The professional grade is stuff where we can do it online virtually, so we literally do use Zoom.
And so I'll work with a client or we have a group workshop. We actually have a group workshop this weekend,
and people will come in on the Zoom call. And then I will be facilitating,
and then we'll have everybody move. They have privacy and space to move.
And on my end, I use my technology to record everybody moving or the client,
and then also as well certain technology to play it back over Zoom, and then give them feedback. And then the whole thing is being recorded as a replay, which has another layer of feedback to it. So that's that's what I do most often because it's so much easier for people to to hop on a Zoom call than it is to fly out. But I do have people I do have people fly out. There's things where we can only

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:00 
Right.

Andrew Daniel  00:16:04 
do in person.
And so the second grade is the cinema grade where we actually have the
tens and tens of thousands of dollars of Hollywood
cinema grade equipment
where we're able to capture in very high resolution at very high speeds
a very particular
system that we have,
and that allows us to go into super high rates and super slow motions
to see all of the stuff that we normally would miss
just watching in real time. You can slow it down, play it back, because what happens in real time is that sometimes
these things were were manipulating other people. We're we're hoodwinking. We're we're seducing.
We're lying to ourselves and other people and sometimes not even knowing it. And so it's very off it's very easy to get pulled into someone's story. Right? Get pulled sucked into someone's manipulation,

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:51 
Right.

Andrew Daniel  00:16:58 
and no one know it. Well, with the video and the replay,
you can distance yourself from that and say, oh my gosh. Look at that. Oh, you're doing this. Oh, oh, this was happening. And so
Both of though that particular thing is helpful
in person and online.
But
having the in person stuff we have a specific diagnostic
that's called
a a slack line. So we actually have people walk on a slack line.
And we have various hands on techniques and stuff, as you know, with with trauma and a lot of people just don't get
haven't had touch. And there's there's a lot of stuff in the body
where
appropriate,
safe,
touch,
can, you know
you know, activate
stuff. I was just reading I was just watching a video of

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:50 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:17:50 
somebody talking about
just babies sleeping in certain ways,
the pressure their body parts have on the bed
turns on certain circuits, you know, some nervous system stuff in the development of the baby. So there's so much stuff
that
the body does and holds,
and
the in person stuff allows us to do those things that we can't do virtually. But I have clients that I work with.
I've been working with for two years, and it's
ninety percent virtual.
Oftentimes, they'll come in for a few days. They'll fly in, and we'll do that stuff, which is like a supercharged
in a few day session. And then over the course of the next few weeks and months,
we help integrate and and go further with that stuff. So it it works both virtually and in person at very high levels.

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:44 
That's great. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I
I I think there's a lot.
I mean, I know I I I do I I do internal family systems therapy, and I do this weekly with my therapist, and I do it over Zoom.
But there are things that, you know,
are really benefit doing it in person like you were saying, like, the bodywork. When when I was in trauma
therapy for residential treatment,
it was
you were you were given
body work each day, whether it be a massage,

Andrew Daniel  00:19:19 
Oh, excellent.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:19 
And, yeah, it it they they I what is it when they move the

Andrew Daniel  00:19:24 
Lemphatic,

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:25 
yes. What is

Andrew Daniel  00:19:26 
or fat, myofascial,

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:28 
Yeah. They were so there was just a list of of their body work that they really wanted you to do

Andrew Daniel  00:19:31 
Yeah.
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:36 
along with the programming that they already had because it was just

Andrew Daniel  00:19:39 
Oh, wow. You're
you're very lucky. That's very blessed. I mean, a lot of places don't know that.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:43 
I I was I I am
Yes. I am I'm very, very blessed because I feel that, you know you know, I
this this place is Sears Tucson in Arizona. I I could talk about them forever because they they worked on some really cutting edge stuff there, like, revisioning, which I I I still don't hear people talking about. But there are also, I think, one of the only clinics back in twenty twenty that was doing
ketamine treatments for

Andrew Daniel  00:20:09 
Oh, okay.

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:10 
so and I did know
neural feedback.

Andrew Daniel  00:20:14 
Yep.

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:15 
And, obviously, I feel like, sino sino
sino somatic therapy would be extremely helpful.
In in that in that kind of environment in a in a residential treatment center where there are a lot of people who are there and who are staying there and who has who can do this. So that's something definitely I think you to think about. But,
you know,
in talking about this, you know, I I Like I mentioned, I did inter I do internal family system therapy. And I I've mentioned briefly or I think you you've heard
my work with psychedelics. I I I've done

Andrew Daniel  00:20:48 
Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:50 
I mean, I've I really, really credit psychedelics.
To a lot of my transformation.
And you mentioned briefly

Andrew Daniel  00:20:58 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:01 
about usage shamanism
and embodiment therapy
that your organization's actually pioneering, and I'm intrigued. I was like, I need to know more about this. Like, you you're really on on the frontier of all this cutting edge stuff, so I need to learn more.

Andrew Daniel  00:21:07 
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. So it's it this is so Cinematics
is a very specific
you know, let's just call it the the the method, the technique.
It's using the video and the movement.
Now there's other things I do with it as well, and so
One of the things is doing dream work. Another another thing is doing symbolism work, and we use ancient
imagery. Basically, use picture
symbols
as these archetypes.
And
so I basically have this three
three door approach.
We have the dream work, right, this unconscious symbolic realm. We have picture symbols, symbolic realm, and then we have the body,
symbolic realm, unconscious.
And so
dealing with all three of these,
what we're doing is not
a heady mental academic analysis.
What we're doing all of it is actually going into a
it's almost like a meditative
state.
And in this
sort of very still,
quiet,
connected place,
we go into
these symbols,
and we're not just doing it
Willie Nilly
or we're not just doing it on the surface,
we're really doing what's called chateau work.
And maybe some people have heard this term,
but it's really been,
I don't wanna say, appropriated, but it's been very watered down. You
know, real shadow work is going into the places
of our
psyche
that we have spent decades of our life not ever wanting to go. It's going into the places
of ourselves that we hate, that we despise, that we feel guilty about, that we judge, that we shun, that we literally wanna take pills or take a knife and cut it off and get it off of us and and completely change it or

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:21 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:23:25 
just, you know, disown it.
And part of this work is looking at those things, and not only looking at them, but reintegrating

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:31 
Yeah.

Andrew Daniel  00:23:34 
them, letting go of the judgments, letting go of the suppression
stopping the suppression.
And then this, of course, encounters all of the trauma. And it it encounters
the stories in our life that say,
Okay. This thing is bad about me. We can't look at that or deal with that. And then saying, well,
Maybe we've got that wrong all along. Maybe
that was just something we did to protect ourselves
and cope with something that was horrendous in the moment that we didn't know anything else to do about.

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:06 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:24:08 
And now as adults in a safe place, we can allow ourselves to go there and to heal that.
And so
we do this
with the movement. We do it with the dreams. We do it with the symbolism work.
And it
is very akin to
the the the psychedelic journey.

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:31 
Mhmm. Yeah.

Andrew Daniel  00:24:32 
But conscious.
So one of the things with the entheogens and the psychedelics
is is a twofold
benefit, but also a limit.
And that's the fact that it kinda shows you everything. It kind of forces you. Right? It takes you where it's gonna take you.

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:47 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:24:50 
And you can surrender
or you can fight it.
And
and so for a lot of people, it's really beneficial because most people

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:57 
Right.

Andrew Daniel  00:24:59 
aren't willing to go to these places themselves.

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:03 
That's very true.

Andrew Daniel  00:25:05 
Yeah. Yes. So it's it's incredibly beneficial because of that. Now
the
the limitation of that
is are two things. One,
is that you're you're at choice by going in,
but
the choices throughout of it
you know, like we said, it it more of takes you there. So it's less of a conscious will. Now you our response because you're the one that decided to do it and you're letting go and allowing it to do it. So you're you're still at choice,
but it's a different kind of choice than showing up in your conscious awareness
making those individual choices.
The second thing is the integration.
Is that on a lot of these experiences, you're in this
very altered state. You're in and out of consciousness, maybe sometimes.
Things are really symbolic.
And depending on your guide, depending on the container, depending on the post integration,
you can really benefit from it, or you could kind of go a little crazy
you know, people have had, you know, psychedelic experiences where they can't ground it back into reality. You know, they're they're their ego is blown and, you know, all of this stuff.

Lorilee Binstock  00:26:23 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:26:24 
And so
I I still you know, I think it's an amazing thing. However,
in my work,
we're doing that same level of
exploring
these symbolic, unconscious
things that you would in psychedelics,
but we're doing it loosely. We're doing it consciously.
So now there's parks and downsides to this. The parks are
you're integrating everything as you go, and you're getting the wisdom.
The wisdom is not only in your subconscious, but now it's in your conscious.
Right? You're consciously
aware in real time of what everything is teaching you, what all of these symbols are teaching you. So the integration is very rapid in real time. It doesn't necessarily take, you know, weeks or months, you know, to journal and talk and figure it out. It's happening in real time.
The second benefit with that is that you're at choice the entire way. And so you're the one that's empowered the entire time, and you're the one
that's choosing to go there or not. Now this is also the downside.
The downside
is that it requires your choice,
and a lot of people
don't necessarily wanna look at this stuff. And so their ego defenses come up. And all of these strategies to hide out and run away,
get engaged.
And the second kind of downside ish, but just you know,
I guess we could call it a downside, is that it's very confronting.

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:00 
Yes.

Andrew Daniel  00:28:00 
It's extremely
confronting. So the specific way that I use cinematics in this lucid Shamanism work
is advanced. It is it is not a
beginner,
a process. It's not for someone that just walks off off the street.
You do have to have a very solid foundation
in in many areas of your life.
Because what happens is when we start doing this work, and I say, alright. Show me these archetypes. Start moving in your body. And I'm giving you feedback.
What I'm doing is reflecting back to you. So this is the shaman part of it. Where a shaman, you could say, one definition of a shaman,
is someone who
walks the line walks between the two worlds
of the symbolic
and unconscious
with
the literal
waking state. Right? The waking and sleep realms. The shaman is navigating through.
And so what I'm doing in this work is the same thing,
just not with any substances.
So we're literally
helping people integrate these these subconscious,
symbolic
stories, and data, and archetypes,
and making them conscious.
And so in that process, what I'm doing as the facilitator
is not giving advice. I'm not analyzing it. I'm not
saying it's right or wrong or good or bad or what they should do or shouldn't do or anything.
All I'm doing
is being a still pawn.
A clean mirror and reflecting
back the truth of what I see.
And the video does that even better than me. Now this is this is incredibly healing, and it's an incredibly powerful process that changes people's lives.
The thing with it, though, is that I'm just reflecting back what with what I see. And so there's an AA phrase that that's basically the truth will set you free. But first, it'll piss you off.

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:03 
Yep.

Andrew Daniel  00:30:04 
And this is often what we encounter, not with everybody, but when I'm when you're when you go to a
a session,
and they're saying
your This behavior you're doing here is narcissistic.
You're manipulating.
You're seducing.
You're
completely out of relationship with your masculine or feminine.
Oh,
you are actually monitoring yourself
for the past forty years when you thought you were just being nice.
And it's not my opinion. They see the proof
in the video of themselves doing it.
And so it can be a very, very confronting process. And it's only for people that are ready for it. But the people that are ready to see that,
their entire lives change. Everything changes. Their nervous system gets rewired.
The the relationship
shift.
They add I have clients that add zeros to their income.
All of these things happen because you you finally get to know the truth, and you can't get to where you wanna go if you don't know where you're at. And so this work helps with both.

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:14 
That is incredible because, you know, you know, I'm
I'm
absolutely it's like
advocate for psychedelics, but I I do understand that psychedelics is not for everyone.
It I mean,
being okay with traveling to the darkest parts of your soul is
it's
it's heavy. It's heavy.

Andrew Daniel  00:31:34 
Yeah. This. Yeah. Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:35 
And
and I and like you were saying, you know,
in the case of
psychedelics,
you don't really have a choice of coming out of it until it's over.

Andrew Daniel  00:31:47 
Right.

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:48 
And and
what you're what you're, you know,
sharing with loosen loosen Shamanism. I feel that
in this this body of therapy,
is that there there is this option for those people who are, like, I am not touching psychedelics because that is just I I I want more control control than that, then there's this this option,

Andrew Daniel  00:32:08 
Right. Right.

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:11 
which I think is phenomenal.
I I you know,
do you ever have anyone who's like, I don't even wanna watch what I was doing. I have I have trouble just looking at myself
in videos and and and actually trying to analyze. Is is there anyone who ever is just, like,
they do it, and then they're just, like, I can't do this anymore.

Andrew Daniel  00:32:32 
Well,
a lot of people don't like looking at their cells. And you wanna know the reason why.
What I realized
well, do you wanna know?

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:43 
I do wanna know. Yes.

Andrew Daniel  00:32:44 
Yes. Okay.
So,
you know, we we maybe ourselves. We've done this ourselves. I certainly didn't like seeing myself in photos or videos or
anything.
And I I know plenty of people that don't. Well,

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:57 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:33:00 
One of the biggest reasons why is because at some level, we are seeing our shadow.
We look at ourselves. Well, what what we start doing judging? Well, that's a shadow aspect. You know, we're seeing all of these things we don't like about ourselves. That's why we don't wanna look at it. But then there's also a deeper level. Then there's also this understanding that we don't like ourselves. And then we're judging ourselves, and we don't wanna feel like we're judging ourselves. And so there's this whole stack of stuff that happens
for most people instantaneously.
And so they're just like, I I don't even I don't even wanna look.

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:38 
Yes.

Andrew Daniel  00:33:38 
Now
the thing is
those people
are it's gonna be twofold. They're gonna have a really hard time with this work, but it'd also be the best thing they've ever done. Which is usually the case. Right? It's like the thing you're terrified of doing the most,

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:50 
Mhmm.

Andrew Daniel  00:33:54 
knowing that it's the safe, you know, not a reckless thing. But the thing you're avoiding the most
as I say in my book, is probably the thing that's gonna move you forward the quickest.

Lorilee Binstock  00:34:04 
Yep.

Andrew Daniel  00:34:05 
And so in this work, yeah, People come in. They'll have a session. They're like, oh, yeah. I like embodiment. Oh, shadow work. This is fun. You know? And then I basically
tell them their deepest darkest secrets that nobody else knows,
and,
you know, they they're like, you know, buy.
So it does happen,
but then I also have clients who
do one session, and then they work with me for two years. You know, they keep renewing, not because it doesn't work, but because every single aspect of their life works better and better and better and better. And so after the there's an an initial period of kind of the shock and, like, confirm confrontation
and, like, oh my god.
And then what happens is you you realize that all we're doing is seeing
ourselves in the world more accurately.
It's not good and bad, right or wrong, should or shouldn't judgment of this or judgment of that.
What we're doing
is not telling better stories. It's not spinning things positive.
It's just reporting things as is as they are.
Not inflating it. But also not deflating it. And so what happens is that people that go through this process,
they
They fall in love with themselves.
They can see themselves.
They can see the shadow, but they can also see the light. And they're not at the effect of it anymore. They say, you know what? Yeah, that is a shadow effect aspect of me. I do have this narcissistic thing. I do have the selfishness when I do that.
And that's okay. I'm I'm at peace with it because I know I'm at choice, and I'm not doing that anymore.
I don't do like, I don't do those things anymore.
But I still recognize that part of myself.
And so going into these archetypes, we realized that
it's not about being one perfect thing. It's about
having full access to the entire range
of
humanity of all of this stuff.
And we see this in the movements. People will move, and
How they move in their bodies is how they move through their life. The foundational principle of this is how you do one thing is how you do everything.
The way you move in your body, the way you show up on the call, the way you look at yourself on video
is how you're doing that in your life. It's how you see yourself in in in your day to day life. It's how you move through the world. It's how you see everyone else in the world around you. It's your relationship
to life.
And
through this process,
we transformed those relationships.
We we help people feel safe in their bodies again. We help people,
you know, stop judging themselves and everything.
We get people to remove the shackles
and the walls and the barriers
and open up to love.
And become vulnerable, and that vulnerability leads to intimacy,
let people in again, and let ourselves out into the world to be fully expressed.
Without these plateaus, without these stories of limitations of I should or shouldn't I can't be or I'm not this or I'm not enough or I'm not lovable or there's something wrong with me. You know, we're not fixing.
We're stopping.
And that's one of the biggest difference too in this work is that it's not It's not
personal development, which I also called persona
development.
We're not helping people build a better image.
We're helping people stop
everything. We're helping people subtract all of the stuff that isn't really who they are.
And through that process, we get closer and closer
to their true self. Whereas if you start fixing and adding,
all of that layers on top and actually takes you further from your true self.

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:06 
Yeah.
It you know, it's funny when you were talking about why
we don't like to watch videos of ourselves. It's
I actually had therapy yesterday. And, you know, I have I have an eight year old daughter. She's beautiful. She's smart. She's
she's amazing.
But, you know, we've been
going at it a lot recently,
and
And you know, I realized in my therapy session because there was a part of me
that I disliked about myself

Andrew Daniel  00:38:38 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:38 
and how I handle things, and she is was my reflection

Andrew Daniel  00:38:39 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:44 
of that.
And so, you know, in
in working through that, I had to get a better understanding of what did that part of me need
when I was behaving the way that she was behaving when I was younger.
And and that was
and I think that
in thinking about that,
today,
it's it's I just wanted to be heard, and that's all she wants to be. She just wants to be heard. And so, yes, I'm you know, it's it's it's

Andrew Daniel  00:39:11 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:12 
not
changing
who you are. It's kinda I feel like it's it's having a better understanding of why
and then just going kinda going from there.
So and and and when you were talking about transformation, it's like
people who are scared of those bad trips,
those those those people who actually just dive headfirst into those really bad experiences,
those bad trips, those darkest part the darkest parts of, you know, their souls. That I feel like that is when this the transformation
really takes place. Because that those are the things that have been holding them back.

Andrew Daniel  00:39:44 
Yes.
Joseph Campbell's Joseph Campbell's Yeah. He's a great quote.

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:50 
Is there
go.

Andrew Daniel  00:39:54 
He's Joseph Campbell says, the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek.
And that's

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:02 
That couldn't be more true.

Andrew Daniel  00:40:02 
and yeah. And that's that's what we're talking about. Yep.

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:06 
Yeah. And and it's so hard because I know that, you know, there are people out there who

Andrew Daniel  00:40:10 
It is.

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:11 
because that that that are careful. And sometimes there are people who don't even know that they're like, I don't believe that there's any treasure there. You know, there's no personal develop you know, there's no growth there. You know? Because even five years ago, I'm like, this is who I am. This is, you know, this is this is this is it. There's no there's no such thing as post traumatic growth or anything like that. I just

Andrew Daniel  00:40:18 
Right. Yeah.
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:35 
didn't believe it. And, you know,
five years later, I'm like, I don't even know who that was.
So there is there is a way, and
to transform.

Andrew Daniel  00:40:45 
There's always a way. Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:46 
Yes. Absolutely.
Andrea, is there anything that you would like to add?

Andrew Daniel  00:40:53 
Oh, yeah. I got all sorts of stuff. What do you wanna know?

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:56 
Oh, tell me. What so what are you doing what are you working on now? What is what?
What is it the
big thing that you would like this audience to know? These are people who, you know, are trauma survivors.
These are people who who feel that they have trauma that's lurking that they don't wanna face, what is it that you think they would need to know?

Andrew Daniel  00:41:19 
Oh, jeez.
Well, it's a lot. I
Oh,
yeah. That's that's there's a a a lot in there.
I think I think the biggest thing is
And I talked about this in my book,
making
truth the most important thing.
And how that actually practically looks is
do you value
comfort or do you value the truth?
Do you value
playing safe and hiding out,
or do you value the truth?
Do you
value
suppressing
and avoiding,
or do you value knowing the truth?
And so if you can make the truth the most important
thing in your life and use that as your North Star, not happiness
because there's a lot of things
for our growth
that that makes our life incredible
that really aren't themselves
happy.
They lead to it, but the initial thing isn't.

Lorilee Binstock  00:42:29 
Right.

Andrew Daniel  00:42:34 
And so if you're orienting your life to comfort
and
false safety. Now safety is very important,
true safety,
but many of us have a full sense of safety.
You know, hiding out in our rooms and not going out into the world, isn't necessarily
real safety. Because, guess what happens? Well, you don't have a community.
You lose access to making money, and so you might not have a how you know, so there's all of these repercussions and consequences
for things that are ego,
would label and identify as
good positive stuff.
So if you can make the truth the most important thing,
beyond these, beyond your stories,
beyond any
victim mentality stories,
even if you were
a actual victim to something horrific,
it doesn't mean that you you have to keep telling the story
for the next forty years of your life and be a prisoner to it. And so if you can
align yourself to the truth,
and make that more important than any of these things.
You're going to have a
value.
You're going to stand for something greater than the trauma.
You're gonna stand for something greater than the abuse.
You're gonna stand for something greater than you're suffering.
And if you can begin
to live and make choices
from that place,
everything will begin to change. It may not necessarily be easy. In fact, it may be the hardest thing you've ever done. But I can promise
it will be the most rewarding.

Lorilee Binstock  00:44:22 
Yes. It's it's being your authentic self. It's just
chipping away at all the stories that we've told ourselves, like you were saying, all these ideas that we were told
we needed to
be successful, I guess.

Andrew Daniel  00:44:38 
Yeah. Be enough. Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:44:39 
Yeah. Oh, well, you know, I I I absolutely
loved having you on today,
and I know that there's so much more that your organization is doing, and for anyone who would like
to learn more right there is the scrolling fortune cookie to
cinematic
dot org, and you can learn more about
Andrew and
absent and you can also check out his his book, awaken to your true self. There's so much there. So, Daniel, thank you so much for joining me today.

Andrew Daniel  00:45:14 
Yeah. Thank you so much. I I do recommend if people are interested to check out
my book, awaken to your true self.
You have you do have to be willing to be confronted and stick with it, but tens of thousands of people have have benefited from it, and If any of this sounds interesting, that's a great,
great first step.

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:35 
Amazing.
That was Andrew Daniel, author of the bestselling book, awakening to your true self and the founder of cinematics
and director at the center for cinematic development. For more information on Daniel and the center for cinematic development, like I said, you can just click on that scrolling fortune cookie. It will also be found in the show notes.
April's issue of authentic insiders out, authentic insighter to be found at traumasurviberthriver
dot com. That's traumasurviberthriver
dot com. If you haven't already, please subscribe to my email list to get authentic insighter
magazine in your inbox monthly.
Again, thank you so much for joining me today. Join me live next week, April twenty nine or April nineteenth, excuse me. When I speak with Mandy Harvey,
she will be discussing the connection between
trauma and chronic illness and how to solve it for good.
And you've been listening to a trauma survivor thriver's podcast on Fireside.
I'm Lorilee Binstock. Again, thank you for being a part of the conversation.
Take care.

Sisterhood Against Sexual Assault

This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, March 22nd, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.

***Trigger Warning: This podcast contains discussions of sexual assault. Listen with care and if you are looking for resources, please visit, SASA28173.org *** 

​​Lorilee Binstock  00:02:16 

Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast.

 

Today's guest is Dayna Corcoran, founder of the Sisterhood Against Sexual Assault, a profit foundation supporting survivors, and families of sexual abuse. It was created to help victims of sexual violence by providing training learning and awareness of sexual assault.

Dana, thank you so much. For joining me today. I really do appreciate it.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:03:24 

Yes. Thank you so much for having.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:26 

Of course. Well, first of all, could you share a little bit about

your organization sister again, sexual assault?

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:03:34 

Yeah. And we call South here in Black called, North Carolina, just the abbreviated version.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:39 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:03:40 

It it's a newly formed five zero one non nonprofit organization.

That has a community centric mission to provide a safe healing space for victims and survivors to the sexual assault.

We carry out program to protect people from sexual assault remote awareness,

as a well, as to provide education in the support, and we

Just started the first week of January.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:04:03 

Oh, wow. So this is very soon.

Can you tell me

what

what made you guys want to start this organization?

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:04:12 

Yes. Prior to January,

nobody knew about Salsa none of us ever

anticipated be becoming a group of

women or members of this group.

It was the...

Probably the fifth of January.

It was a Friday afternoon noon at four Pm. I was getting ready to leave town, and I got this phone call, and everybody that knows me know I never answered the phone.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:04:35 

Yeah

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:04:36 

But it was it was like, one of my girlfriends here in Miller Community and West.

And it wasn't it was odd. She was calling me as opposed texting.

So

I am at the phone as I was running out the door, and she had said, Dana, I'm in the hospital. I'm in, Charlotte.

I don't know. I'm new to the area. I don't... You know, I don't know where to turn. I just need somebody to talk to and I need somebody to pray for me.

And from that, she told me her story that had happened to her the week prior. So it was just... Over the New Year eve holiday in the Dominican Republic.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:05:13 

Do, I I don't know she

feels comfortable with you sharing a little bit about our story.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:05:17 

Yeah.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:05:19 

Would you be able to do that?

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:05:19 

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I'm sharing an information with arabic victims approval.

She's also written out her story and she in the process of going through therapy and the she's... More comfortable. I know that she's gonna be her own advocate, and she will show be the platform that we speak on to talk to other victims and survivors of the sexual assault.

So she's on vacation with a friend in the Dominican Republic.

Justice her and her friend at an all inclusive resort, So we you know, we travel. We think those are safer players to go to.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:05:53 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:05:55 

She

intends the nightly

organized functions. You fifteen being night the fun night,

and

it's still broad daylight on the day of her herself. She's at the...

At the restaurant the lounge bar area outside in I say that because in order her to piece her incident back together,

she had remembered that it was daylight.

The sun hasn't set yet, it was still early. She's enjoying a beverage,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:18 

Mhmm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:06:24 

and flash forward a few hours, she wakes up on the side of the road in the Dominican Republic.

So on her story,

video, Surveillance, and what she couldn't recall as time goes by,

she was having a drink.

So she is filmed being walked out of

the all resort,

put in a car

And

approximately four hours later, she was pushed from that moving car, landed on the

sidewalk, which woke her up to trauma from the from falling out of the car kind of woke her up.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:59 

Mhmm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:06:59 

She

realized she was laying in a pool of her own blood,

the it was right back to front of the resort that she was taken from.

The resort staff came out and took her to the local

you know, makeshift hop, they're not, like, our hospitals that we go to, but it was more like gay,

a makeshift,

hospital urgent care in the Dominican Republic

where

she realized she had been drug

kidnapped. Obviously, she was taken off the resort.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:07:27 

Mm-mm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:07:29 

And

then really imaginative attacked

with an object sexually attacked with an object. That created approximately a ten centimeter

gas internally,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:07:40 

Oh

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:07:41 

which led to the need for

medical attention.

So she's getting to the medical attention in a... In... Which is great. I mean, their job was to keep her alive. They did that,

but it was in a

non discreet room where the

the... The... You the surgeons that were helping her were in

t shirt because That were inside out. There was no glove, but there was no...

It was stupid obvious that wasn't a professional hospital.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:06 

Oh, goodness.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:08:10 

She

immediately received

live transfusion

because of the... She had lost so many,

so much of her own blood that she immediately received the blood... And she was allergic to it right away. Immediately got a rash.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:22 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:08:23 

Something's wrong with is the the way it, you know, worked with her body or something was wrong with the blood to begin with, but she needed it.

They su her her. They gave her the blood. They

they... You know, they antibiotics the everything that she needed.

But as she was going along, they kept saying, well, if you want this done, you have to pay a thousand dollars you want this and I need to pay a thousand dollars?

And it they had... The... The the financial end of it was... This is why I'm saying all of this is because

the only time they had brought an interpreter

that she could understand what was happening to her. It was

along with the police department there. It was to assigned to her that if she didn't pay this bill in debit or cash or Venmo or, you know, money in hand,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:09 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:09:09 

she would be taken directly from the hospital to the police department and held,

Meaning they wouldn't let her leave unless she had paid this money. So as an aftermath,

you think, okay, The assault led to the need for medical attention. So this orchestrated

event

from the bartender at the of the resort,

who she... Who who's was the only person that was near her drink ties her.

Would have

put something in her drink, led to somebody walking her out, led to the sexual assault

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:41 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:09:41 

that led the need for

this massive medical attention.

And she

had a horrific deal. While she was at this medical facility. She

she's screaming She's gonna a place that nobody speaks English and and the

physician just kept telling her.

Don't scream are women here and don't do that. Don't don't act, like that don't do that.

And she said, I just wanna go, I wanna go home and they said you need to call your family

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:04 

Oh my gosh.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:10:08 

and tell them where all your

you know, life documents are where your will is, where you because you are not going to survive this.

So they gave her a phone, They let her call her teenage daughter from a different country,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:20 

Oh my goodness.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:10:21 

which involved pin.

You know, oh my mom. Her. She's in this... And and and then everybody started sending money.

To pay for the medical

bill it doesn't get her physically out of the country.

So she's she told them. I wanna leave. I'm leaving

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:34 

Wow.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:10:37 

1. You're going into kidney failure. If you leave, you will not make the the flight home.

She leaves. She get. Like she paid the big thousand dollars bill. She, you know, borrowed from her son was college fine, She brought from her friend.

She brought she exhausted her

retirement. And and all the way that she had access. You she's a single mother of multiple children.

She did it, but she could to survive. To get out of that country who obviously set her up to this.

So she on that she could get on a plane on the way home with Charlotte.

She

have got elephant titus ever her leg in her face.

She was going into kidney failure. She arrived at the Charlotte Hospital,

And that evening

had a minor

heart attack in her sleep due to the strap.

And when they did the exam on her

the doctor starts pulling out this god.

God. God. They had packed term

of

something to stopped of bleeding, but you could get attention a bacteria infection.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:39 

Oh,

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:11:40 

The doctor hearing said they did not intend for you to survive that.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:44 

Wow.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:11:45 

While she was there, she contacted the police department. She tried to file a complaint. She complained to the

the resort

it didn't go anywhere In until the the was getting on the claim, the

you have the

Dominican Republic police contacted her and the said. Your your report on file that the right department needs to be filed with the sexual

assault department, and you have to do that in person. And course, she said, not a chance I'm getting on the plane that I'm going home.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:14 

Right.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:12:15 

So this is... She she called me that Friday and just said I need prayers and she started crying. And you... This woman was new to our neighborhood.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:21 

Mhmm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:12:24 

She relocated her family in her job.

She

I had met her and passion at a

neighborhood the phone party. We and she moved into the ladies house and we were really good friends like, it was a very

superficial relationship

because it was very new and because it'd be pivot of the different ages where we're doing a different

behalf,

and she didn't know that I have a history with

that I'm a federal agent, and I work for home security

which is separate, obviously, from Nasa, but that I have a history of the devastating sex time. So like, she as got led her to call me and act in asked just for

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:59 

Mhmm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:13:04 

support and gotten support and prayers.

Meanwhile,

being the picture that I am, that information came in, and I thought, okay. Not the hospital she saved

now that's she's in Char, what can we do

now to help her?

So

other than the Funko group, we actually did the

the zombies that we did mom

flash over How we and that how I had met her the few weeks before Halloween and I called all this the mom that I said, and the... Again, it is made up of people that we see at functions and

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:30 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:13:41 

not everyday life and we met the group, and we said, we are going to

work together to raise the funds to at least pay back

you know, what happened to her, she shouldn't have to pay for

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:53 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:13:55 

sexual assault

or the

the aftermath.

Herself. I mean, it was her that was sexually assaulted It was... It... You know, that should be constantly forever we living being victim and victim.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:01 

Right.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:14:08 

Having to dig her out of holders what we knew at a community we could do to help her. So from that,

within the next three days after

South was born the district against sexual assault. And

it started off of the group of fifteen of and now there are almost four hundred of us on the private facebook page, which anybody is welcome to

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:28 

Oh wow.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:14:32 

within the first seven days,

our community and our local

female owned vendor and is very specifically female owned because that's

the page that we had started with was just women

just so we didn't share her information out too far. But the neighborhood

vendors and the women at our local salon. We see those fabulous times distal lane,

even our self handing lady

no at because she donated

her time and her finding, you know, the business and we we raised over ten thousand dollar in seven days.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:11 

Oh.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:15:12 

Are we're both the Fas women in West,

North Carolina, the small town. We all moved to. We

are local twins south,

restaurant

donated their time and they they donated large check, and

we did a basket raffle, and we made sure our local vendor

that five made our shirts

within two days. It was

crazy and insane, amazing how quickly it came together all the same pod.

And then later on, when we discuss sexual assault, and some of the reasons why not reported,

we can talk about how

these these women and the majority of them had never met her. They came out

to function after function after function, volunteered of their time, their money,

everything that they could and they still had never better up until two weeks ago, when I had a a fast gathering at the house,

and

we're having this

another fundraiser. This car game center is a and I I get up, and I I I think everybody's are coming, and I sent our a excellent halt survivor that we treated in santa for a year. And half the members didn't even know that.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:25 

Oh goodness.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:16:25 

So she she

thanked everyone, and it was like...

It

it's amazing at this age and and our stage in our life, but there's so many people that are supportive

to other women or even any anybody that's a a victim of sex little felt that they don't even know.

You know, I can donate eat money on Facebook. I can say, you know, here's your fifty dollars per your fundraiser, I think it great.

But these women were... These are still donating their personal time,

Just, because they want to help her in the situation she's been in which I agreed that super crazy the the story that she tells

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:55 

Mhmm

Mhmm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:17:02 

the story that happened to her from start to,

is a forty eight hour episode. It is something that

she is fifty six. You know, she's not eighteen on on spring break. She wasn't

somebody that is not educated that they're not that's the loose that out to party and, you know, go to these places and not be aware of your surroundings. It can happen to anyone at any time in any situation.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:25 

Mhmm.

Yeah. I mean, that just listening to the story, it just... It it breaks my heart.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:17:33 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:34 

But it's so inspiring how this community of women really came together for this person. Many of them didn't even know.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:17:41 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:42 

Wow. I mean, I... Oh, gosh. That's just gives because me chills how beautiful that is because I feel like, you know, we need more women supporting women, and

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:17:49 

I.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:51 

I just... Wow.

I I can't

I I I know that your your

deep... For your organization, I know you're talking about awareness and prevention and training,

but it seems like

something internationally

that happened

there's there there

other things that we need to also worry about, because she couldn't even file a complaint or she did, and it was with the... And then

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:18:13 

Right.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:15 

do you have any sense of

of

what we can tell people who are traveling

overseas, especially

to to be aware of certain situations and potential stories just like Dana.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:18:31 

Mhmm.

So

I will say that

from this... And in even from our very first

fundraiser

that

you know... And in there's fertility, that may have reduce context assault, but there are so many people that have lived through

some typing in of event. An incident that is similar. You know I mean, this one is is big, but that were similar They I had come up to us and I wanted the Dominican public. There's another in the small community that we're in

that they had seen somebody put something in their drink. And they have reported it. And and... And the...

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:05 

Yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:19:09 

It goes back to everyone goes back to the bartender center, it goes back to the and go back to the hotel it goes back to the law that not being enforced on these

and the

residential, you know, these these all included places that we pay to go to. They're not being held accountable. So at least what we can do here is put out a awareness and put out

travel awareness. Don't go to... And that that's what we're in the stages of doing now. The Sas happened so quickly at the beginning and we were so focused on fixing and helping being in

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:31 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:19:39 

giving our survivor what she needed.

Finance she needed financial help. She needed Thomas Therapy. We have a few therapist in our Community alone that offered their services for free.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:46 

Yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:19:51 

She was... One of our therapist here,

please term with the top trauma therapist in the area she immediately got in, even though there was a second a month wait.

She started her therapy right away, which I know was helpful for her?

And and through that, the therapist said you need to write down your story. And when you feel comfortable, you need to take it to the news and when you feel more comfortable,

you need to take it to the Dominican Republican and you feel more comfortable. You need to take it to Do and rally for the right to survivors for sexual assault, and that's what our long term goals are,

including

therapy intensive weekend camp for survivor and their family members. Because are the type of things this fast I would like to fund,

like, she had the grown children. They may not wanna go to therapy every week to talk about

how or they can't because they're not local.

So we would like to fund... Let's go to this family camp for three days. With a set of platform with something we can build from

and

help

survive this. We're she's going to I'm going through it every day, and I wasn't paired. It didn't happen to me.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:58 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:21:00 

We... You know...

And that's another thing with

awareness.

We... The first thing we did was, okay, we're gonna make these baskets while we're making these back to rattle.

What can we do to make sure this doesn't happen to anybody else we went online. We purchased the cup covers, which we have and we give out to people, it's kind of like a sticker, but it doesn't ruin your glass. You poke your straw through it,

But in her situation that wouldn't have helped because we believed that the bartender was in on

her kidnapped, which is

how you're doing research online and talking to other long officers that is how

they coordinate their organized crime there It it goes all the way back to the bartender centers so that nobody

nobody. I mean, who do you think your pains... You know, you're you're getting your drink from a a bar tender at a reputable plane.

You don't think things like that. We don't think things like what.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:51 

No.

Yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:21:53 

So

we research the

these drink kits where we can test your drink. It's kind of like a Covid test. You gotta take your drink out, put it in there.

We researched the... There was two

college kids from North Carolina actually that started the nail polish that if you dumped your nail polish in the drink, and it change colors if then at something in it, we couldn't find any more information on that. Maybe it's not going on anymore.

There has to be it an easier way

I mean, we shouldn't have to protect ourselves from our own dreams, but they're happy will be away what we can do that.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:25 

Oh, yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:22:29 

So our short term goals were to help our survivor, our long term goal to therapy, and we have

I asked her. Actually, you know, when she came back

and we had started with Casa,

we set up a meal train, which was immediately packed for two months. So people came and it left food at her door we started to go find me. We did the fundraiser, but I didn't

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:46 

One

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:22:53 

go over to our house. I didn't sit down with her because I knew other people were doing that. I knew she had to go through these steps on her own. I didn't wanna interview her. I didn't want to, you know, crack the case and I didn't want to do that to her because that's not what she needed, then I waited a we And then I taken over a package for her with pajamas and and things that were donated from the neighborhood.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:08 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:23:15 

And through my conversation with her,

I just I noticed her,

like, lean down and, like, picket or toes and how like what are you doing? And she why I guess it I won't be getting a white pe.

Ever again. And I noticed that even a week later,

her pe was stained with her own blood.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:34 

Oh, my goodness.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:23:34 

It she had been

drug

you know, she's been pushed out of the car, You know, the thick gel, it is scraped in the blood that in there so much

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:41 

Yep.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:23:44 

that

it... And I I was like, oh, my gosh. It was

an awakening for me to watch this happen to her. So some that, we asked her

what can we do as a group to help other victims and survivors of sexual assault when that happens to them? What did you need?

In that hospital, which she everything she had gotten sick, vomit in her own bed, and they said, just cover it up.

And roll over. And so she had been throwing up from this medication and then and she had essentially lay in her own

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:13 

Mhmm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:24:17 

vomit and So that's not hopefully that doesn't happen in Us hospital here. But

what can we do here for victims and sexual assault when they leave?

The... Or when they're at the hospital getting there and. And are one of our founders, Jennifer she reached out to the Emergency room in Bird.

Charlotte and

our local emergency room here off at Providence Road

along with the information that our survivor Angie

Gave us. She said, you know, I could have really used a views ago.

I could have you really need math loss. I could have used

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:48 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:24:52 

close, you know, you're... She's left in the bloody dress that she was playing in for three days. But here in the Us, they would leave in

you know, like, the hospital gown

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:02 

Right.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:25:03 

Wasn't bit more

than sitting out of a stop or having to get in the car with your mom or your dad in a hospital little gown.

When you have to go to the hop, it will be... When you have to go to the

Cvs to get your medicine or or whatever needs to be done we made a list of things that people

needed

when they believed the post examination and evidence collection without feeling victim,

and

we had these kids donated from every one of the neighborhood,

you know, the kitchen travel went like, the shampoo, and the body wash. We went to five and below. We bought pants and underwear and face cloth. Like, she, I wish I could just have wiped the blood off my face because people were staring at me

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:33 

Mhmm.

Yes. Yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:25:47 

ties. Know just...

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:49 

Basics.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:25:50 

I don't that you need basic items. We bought back, and not I'm just script bag,

and we packed them and each bag for us cost of approximately twenty dollars to make, which is great. But

which is which is reasonable

for everything that was in it. But when we went to the hot formation, we have we needed of this.

You know, we there's a few programs around here that do them, they donate

both certain items, but there's nothing we can give them as a bag.

Which is where the emergency room care package program came from through.

It... But there three hundred

sexual assault kits that were done in the emergency room in Charlotte area in one year.

So times that by twenty dollars, has a lot coming from a brand new non profit foundation.

But we... Well once we heard that we're, alright, well, we're gonna have to front the money for this because we wanna make sure

that everyone that goes into that hospital comes out or something. So we're doing the process of making those

And I'm sorry, you said awareness with the international week. So she's gotten to a point where

we're posting

travel advisor.

Where our entire

group is posting information on,

you know, like, a travel

heads up, if you will, Like,

And people like my girlfriend be my girlfriend texted out me the other day and said, hey, my my daughter got a lot of friends on spring break going Dominican Republic.

What was the name of that resort again? And these are people that are vulnerable.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:27:20 

Yeah. I kinda wanna know too.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:27:22 

Yeah. I again I and I don't know how that I I'm good I can... I send it to you. I can attach it. I know it was

in the Dominican Republic in Put, and it was a chips resort, but is happening

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:27:32 

Mhmm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:27:34 

at all their rewards. If something similar as happening? Mean when you have math, people going to vacation,

you know, there's

there's even cruise lines there's things that

that

everybody's detection me because they're listening I

So there's

it's bad thing happen everywhere. But with something it that this...

Normal thing, like this that is issues this and and this going back to why we went one of our long term goal is to do early education

to both male and females, but in the schools, do early education.

It's obvious it's this sexual, So I was gonna traumatized her and her family forever. But

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:13 

Yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:28:14 

one sec incident the sexual can do the exact same one

at a party or one college party where somebody,

you know, is passed out and the guy thinks out that she said, yeah. Earlier and now she passed out what they're gonna happen. They have to realize that, you know, their fun time hook at at this party that they saw

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:26 

Yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:28:33 

she was

contextual to will lead to a lifetime of unresolved, trauma, if not,

disgust or if not prevented.

So that's... And and obviously, that's a long term goal, we're we're eight weeks into them. And we've already

started the foundation we have we're

we have insurance and we have bank account and we have all these things, and

this is amazing. What what people we have done?

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:58 

That is amazing.

I mean, it's amazing. You're doing so much and you're here. Talking about it and spreading awareness, and and I think that's wonderful.

Do you think that there's anything that

we should be... Like, do you think they were targeting?

You

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:29:16 

So so maybe on the Internet research and

of the Dominican republic or Mexico or anywhere where you travel

specifically to this type of crime. They're targeting

older

men and women and in statistically,

for the international crimes the men

because she felt comfortable reaching out to her friend group. I don't know that if it happened to my husband or somebody that in the exact same situation, but of a male in her situation would even admit that doesn't happened to them. So they're hoping that

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:46 

Mhmm.

Right.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:29:51 

you know, they...

She... Her fight or flight was... I wanna record it and I wanna get home to my children. So she left knowing that that was her decision. And then we have to go back and find it.

I would think in a similar situation, a male

victim would be less

you know, receptive to reaching out. And and, again, I pulled the statistics of men versus female

victims and it in one of the and reason people don't report it is

sadly, it's a common phenomenon. It's the victim blaming.

And when she

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:26 

Right.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:30:28 

told me this story. I mean, I've literally typed it up as she was saying it, and I sent it to our our zombie group, and I said...

I said, this is not a joke. This is not... I the first thing I had to say was this is for real because it sounds like it was written by, you know, James Patterson, and this is gonna be the movie. And

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:45 

Mhmm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:30:47 

because of every stage that she went through, it just got more horrific. So so biggest done the research on the Internet was... You know, they they they knew that she had come with a companion, but they weren't they were friends. They weren't together. They were in separate room.

She... He he went to bed early every night, and she stayed out there. They they've found her. They watched her. They waited a few days.

And they knew him. They know they come there for seven days five days, whatever the minimum night is, and they wait until it's the end.

And then the all happens.

And they... And just the people that have access to money. You know, my... Eighteen year old goes this spring Right, she might have my credit card on her phone, but she doesn't have a way to get eight thousand one dollars in cash.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:22 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:31:32 

So they all people that

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:32 

Right.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:31:34 

look like they have money. Older women that he'll had access to money.

And

I you know, I'm in my forties, but I couldn't imagine that fifty six

then happening.

Or any

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:46 

Right.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:31:47 

level of sexual assault happening. But you... You know, you know, you you go in college and your mom horns you, You know, don't look look around before you get out the gas station.

Then do that at fifty six, Fifty seven, forty seven and what are the aging? Well, you're constantly not looking over your shoulder because... I'm not in high demand. You know? Don't happy What in that one, that wasn't the case The kid wasn't. I want to sexually you saw you The case was

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:59 

Right. You're right.

Yeah

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:32:11 

this sexual assault is gonna happen because you're gonna pay the money.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:15 

That's horrible.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:32:15 

And that's how she... That's what she feels happens. The the the way that the bills were given to her, individually. It was like people were getting paid for different things.

It was it

she's lived. She lived

through the worst situation that anybody and in a different country

where you're... And you're told you're not gonna survive it. And

So when you come back and you tell this crazy story,

who's gonna believe you. And that's a common reason why people don't

report sexual assault, and then victim blaming. And she been said when I talk to her, I'm not blaming myself for what I wore. I'm not blaming myself because you know, I keep myself together. I'm not... And that's great. And and I'm glad that you can do that because

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:49 

Mhmm.

Yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:33:01 

it it was horrific and nobody

you know, nobody asked to be sexually filtered, and we have to remind our children our our girls are void that that at any point in a new situation,

regardless what we're happening leading up to it, when but you don't want something to happen. It shouldn't happen.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:18 

Right. Right. And and, you know,

many of us go out on our own

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:33:22 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:22 

and and that's scary that we have to really be on the lookout

for... I mean, even even here our states side,

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:33:28 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:29 

you know,

anything could happen Bartender could easily put something in our drink. Is there's is there anything that we should be aware of

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:33:32 

Mhmm.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:36 

as far as that goes when we're going out on our own say,

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:33:39 

Well, yeah. Going out on your own yet,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:41 

Mhmm

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:33:41 

I don't go out on your own. But,

you know, the... That came up too when we were discussing it one of our members I went to more of the

the Charlotte

Bar

we're like something with all and immediately when she realized

because you know what you can drink and what you can't drink in chronic. And when you immediately she realized something didn't feel right. She called somebody and they go man. You're slur like, something's wrong with using really out of it. And she said I think something happened to me, and they came and picked her up. So just

be aware. And, you know, I saw one of those commercials on The other day, and it was what... You know, you you do a hand signal no nobody knows those? Do you do...

What should we do with that? Maybe we should come come up with a word or come up with a names. And if you go to the bartender,

and you say, you know, you can say, I think I've been drugs. They'll take care of you. But if you're not comfortable in saying that or somebody's following you or

stalking you

assaulting you verbally assaulting you are being a crowd of maybe there's something you we can come up with that they can say to the to a Bartender or bar owner or a

receptionist is that that will get the attention that they need. So maybe that's something we can come up with, always we having it out

always having your phone location on now that we have those. You know, we back in my bar days, we didn't have those

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:34:57 

Yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:35:02 

But

it's...

And so I'm just looking over this staff how to make sure we retire. Why do why are people not reporting their users because they're are afraid of not being believed,

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:10 

Yeah.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:35:13 

nine times out of ten is a family member or somebody, you know, you somebody that has access to you,

The majority of sexual assault are not reported only, three hundred ten out of every thousand sexual assault are reported to police.

Meaning two out of three go reported,

it's just...

We need to make sure that our youth are middle aged our older every

stage of your life. You know who to contact.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:36 

Everyone.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:35:39 

We have a very good

North Carolina

organized company called Rain rave

says.

National network or the national network

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:46 

Mhmm.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:35:49 

that how a hotline line

I'm... I've sent you everything we can attach it or whatever you needed.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:53 

Yep. I can all I can absolutely put that in the show notes. Definitely.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:35:56 

Okay. Obviously, if you're in the immediate danger called nine eleven one, tell them where you're at. Let them know what's happening. I would rather my daughter or my south call every time I thought something was happening,

than not... We and atlanta are non in law enforcement. We are just a profit organization.

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:08 

Right.

 

Dayna Corcoran  00:36:13 

Maybe like, a middle, a conduit that's a happy face where you can come to me, and then I anything I think that happened.

What should I do? We have

all the resources and and pant you need that we can

send to you or... We've had people in the neighborhood, say my daughter was raped

many many years ago,

I just kinda needed it. I could... I kinda need this. You know? I I need I need a home for my sadness, and that's what we're for.

We... Just... We have volunteers that can come meet with you. We we don't have out legal advice. We don't

we don't do anything like that. We're just the middle man that that can help you feel better about reporting your situation, and we can help with fundraising

any type of support that I needed?

 

 

 

 

Healing Postpartum Psychosis

This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, March 15th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.

***Trigger Warning: This podcast contains discussions of suicidal ideation and the use of psychedelics to heal postpartum psychosis. We are not doctors in the medical field and are only speaking in the nature of our own experiences. If you are experiencing postpartum depression or psychosis, please reach out to your physician. If you would like to support or donate to the movement for psychedelic advocacy, check out the psychedelic medicine coalition *** 

Today’s guest is Melissa Lavasani, Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Washington, DC-based Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, the first and only member association focusing on advocating for psychedelics at the Federal, State, and local levels of government. Prior to founding Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, Melissa was Chairwoman of Decriminalize Nature DC and proposer of Washington DC’s successful 2020 ballot measure Initiative 81: the Entheogenic Plant and Fungus Policy Act. Inspired by her own experience of using psychedelics to heal her severe postpartum depression, Melissa led the Decriminalize Nature DC campaign to the largest ballot initiative victory in the history of our nation’s capital.

 

 

Lorilee Binstock  00:00:32 

Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast..

Thank you so much for joining me live On Fire side chat, where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I'm your host, Lorilee Binstock. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guess questions by requesting to hop on stage. You're sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get to you, but I do ask that everybody be respectful.

Today's guest is Melissa Lavasani, founder and chief executive officer of Washington Dc based psychedelic Medicine coalition.

The first and only member association focusing on advocating for psychedelic psychedelics at the federal state and local levels of government. Prior to founding psychedelic medicine coalition Melissa was chair women of nature Dc and composer of Washington Dc successful twenty twenty ballot measure initiative eighty one then

plant and fungus policy act, inspired by your own experience of using psychedelics to heal her severe post depression, Melissa led the criminal nature Dc campaign to the largest vaglio initiative victory in the history of our nation's capitals.

Melissa, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me. You know, this is the first time I've actually ever had someone in my studio, which Now, you know, is a closet. I feel so on her. You you should be. I would not let a lot of people into my closet, but I do consider you a friend

I met you through the whole movement, the psychedelic movement. And, actually, you have some news to share today. 

Melissa Lavasani:

Yeah. we are launching a pack a political action committee.

It's called Psychedelic medicine talk, and is a way to engage with everyday noncitizens on this issue. You know, the coalition is really focused on specifically the ecosystem and bringing the industry that is coming out of that ecosystem to the capitol hill and getting them to advocate for changes in laws.

But we found that it was it's really important to engage American people on this issue.

There's regularly their stories in the media talking about and shaping up medicine, but,

you know, getting people are interested in this issue and getting them involved in the political process. To put leaders in place that will, you know, get behind this issue and congress and then and in state legislatures, is really important. That's how, you know, elections is one way to exercise our voice in this country, and that is how

we can really create change as if the current leadership is not supporting Psychedelic medicine, healing Americans, and just like have giving Americans a choice in the matter, you know, our with our mental health care system being so in in this this situation of it's end, you know, getting people involved in the political process is just really important, and I think it's gonna help us shift the stigma around he's medicine to his government.

Lorilee Binstock

Well, you yourself was not someone who was someone who did poking unquote drugs right.

And so this is kind of a surprising term for you. This was what twenty twenty, twenty, Yeah. Twenty nineteen my,

twenty nineteen is when I... Like, really found the solutions and, like, stepped into this political process.

Prior to that I was a Dc government employee. I was working in policy and budget. And

know, working at a a hyper local level was super gratifying. It's like the things that I was working on and I could and touch and feel in my everyday life being a Dc resident, And that was great. And I thought well, this is, you know, I got my master's degree and policy. A few years before that, I wanted to do something that made Americans lives better. I didn't know what it was specifically. I thought I would really go into foreign policy.

And that's why my entire master's degree was about is foreign policy, but you know, I think she... There's a saying you plan in god, a master plan and to just be, like a really solid public servant her the city of Dc was it wasn't my destiny at all? Yeah. I got... I was pregnant with my second child working and

our version of City Hall and Dc. It's called the Wilson building. Man having oversight of various distributions is I was pregnant with my second child. I was dealing with a really difficult pregnancy. I've been an athlete my whole life I've always been active my first pregnancy had no issues. But my second one I I felt it was like, my she was like, to sucking my soul in a way. It was like, I it was a very hard process. Like, my body was just not working the same way that it did. I was, of course, a little bit older too having children in my late thirties,

and I had really terrible. So, you know, being active was kinda taken out of the equation completely. I wasn't working out regularly because that, I wasn't really engaged with my health in general. I wasn't eating properly.

You know, I was just kind of there's franchise from the process and you're dealing with. And I had a little taste of what people who deal with chronic pain, know, you was on a daily basis and that I see like that has a direct result on your mental health. And I was... If it got so bad that I was like, crawling up the stairs at the end of the night, when I couldn't stand off properly, I just could've... I was not comfortable. And it I had what they call anti part of depression. And it's not a very well known term. I never even heard of it before this. Yeah. I've never heard of that. Yeah. There's time I'm hearing about it. Yeah. I was going in for a regular checkup And

my regular physician was on vacation, so I was seeing somebody else. And she walked in the door and she just like, hey are you doing? I don't know what it was. Maybe it was, like a female voice that, you know, it was just comforting or something. But, like, I immediately started crying, And like I couldn't even articulate a word,

and she immediately picked up her prescription time started writing me a prescription engine process.

And she's, like, just take this. You'll feel better, immediately. You'll get off of this after you deliver the baby. Everything will be fine and they're so healthy soon. Process. Now I knew that that most likely, wasn't gonna be the case. I've had two friends now, take their own lives, while they were all depression. Yeah I've seen other friends who have been on depression of various kinds for twenty years. You know, I I've seen them a struggle with tapering off of one and trying another one and just the uncertainty that goes along with that. So

And mind, I was getting prescribed this job, it supposed to help me, but I knew that

it could have potentially harmed me even further. So, guys. So I just... I talked to the prescription and I went home, and I was just... It did it wow with me and I was talking to my husband Daniel about it, and he was like, well, if you're not comfortable taking it, like, don't take it, we'll just try and figure this out another way.

But there's... Really... When depression, kinda takes over, it's there's you you lose the range of your ship and she... You know, something else takes you takes you over.

And no matter what I did, nothing was fixing this and it was just getting worse and worse. But I made it through the pregnancy, delivered the baby. He's healthy, happy.

That's I kid alive. But after, and I felt okay for, like, a week or two, and then after two weeks, my health just like, completely declined. I was in the most severe depression that I've ever been, and I've never had any mental health issues prior to this experience. I had a little bit of part with my first daughter, but that went away as soon as I could, you know, get my bearings and get in their routine again and I started going back to work and working out and to fixing a diet.

So I had assumed that this would just naturally go away, like, my other experience did or how that other kids happen. But this just progressively got worse. I was also dealing with paralyzing

anxiety. I was having panic attacks on a regular basis. I had extreme paranoia. I never, like, let my husband drive the kids around. Like, if the kids were in the car, I was driving

I was convinced that, like, he was, you know, gonna bake a bad judgment call. Like, it was very strange, the places that my mind went. And then the at the very worst part of my depression I was hearing voices and it experiencing to the idea. So And I believe that term, you know, there's, like, a term for a push part of psychologists. Right? Nothing nothing is very little data supports this, and, you know, we're we're not really given any resources. You know, You know, this your mom after you a kid. You your baby has, like, twenty checkup, but you have your one checkup.

Your doctor tells you you're clear to have sex and that you're on your way. And, like, that's the milestone for you. No one is regularly checking in on you and I and for me, like, I don't have any family in the city.

I have, like, extended family out in the suburbs, that, like, they're old and they can't really be his hands on, like, without somebody coming in and helping. It was really hard to kind of manage all this.

And in so and I was trying everything. And except you're were into depression. Okay. Yeah. That's I I was very

the paranoid I had about antidepressants before this experience was just, like, completely...

It completely exaggerated during my depression. Like guy was convinced at that point if I had gotten on these drugs if that would be my permanent doom, I would take my life, like, that would be the end of me. Mhmm

Wow, if I was just dealing one my depression without ancient depression, like, I I was experiencing I idea, but I felt like I was in control of that decision. You know?

And whenever I was ready to do that, I would go ahead and do that. And it wasn't a medication that was altering my mind and, you know, making me worse. Right. Right. So they can... It can. Yeah. I mean, and they can work for people as well. I've seen success stories out of this. But if there is another medication we can take and another therapeutic experience we can have, that's extremely effective. So far is what we're learning.

Like, why not explore this idea? Like, in real life application? For American people. You know, it can't be... It's already proven that's not worse than what we currently have the on. So So I stumbled up on a podcast and actually a friend of mine who said and he listened to this podcast with Paul Stamets, and we didn't talk to anybody really about our depression, our kids. Our friends were having kids at the same time.

Everyone was, like, truly enjoying the experience of what it seemed, like, And and I felt like, I'm really struggling right now. And I life, why I have everything I wanna. I got an amazing husband.

I've got two beautiful healthy children. I I've gotta roof over my head. Everyone's fed and clean, and we've got two stable jobs, like, what more could a oppression lot. Alright? So there were these also extreme feelings of guilt, like, there there's something inherently flawed in me that can appreciate all the guests that I've been given.

And it... It of course, it wasn't that it's very little to do with that. I mean, you can be surrounded by

I mean, my my last frontier took life, she was surrounded by amazing people an amazing group of women a community of women that supported her and helped her try to navigate through her depression.

She had a husband who is awesome. A beautiful daughter, you know, if a job she worked for the Smithsonian,

and she had all the support systems in place that you think would keep a person alive, but she still decided to take her life. So that's how, like, dire this disease is you you can be in a amazing situation in this phase of your life, but if you are dealing with this illness, you're convinced the exact opposite everything and that you're worthless lesson and nobody loves you, and it's it's extremely debilitating, and it's it's now we are learning it's impacting many more Americans and we thought it was. Yeah. I mean, the woman in Massachusetts right. The woman who was dealing with post part and the psychosis, and she took, you know, murdered her three kids. Right. And she tried to take her own life. Yeah. And it doesn't sound like she didn't have the support that she needed. You know, her husband came out not long after. And was like, please forgive her. This is not who she was. Right? And and, you know, that's pretty. Right? Like, like up million about to cry right now.

But, yeah, as you you think about, like, they... She was on antidepressants. She was on multiple anti antidepressants. I was reading about that. And, again, like, I'm not saying that antidepressants are bad because they... You know, for me, they were helpful for me to kinda put out the fire, but that wasn't something that I needed to stay audio. But like you said, like, for her, she was on antidepressants, andthe event that happened happened still, You know? Yeah. No one. It's it's very unclear.

What to do in the situation, obviously, I feel like doctors are still not.

They still have no idea. Yeah. But you found a way, Yeah, which I think

we really need to explore more. Can you talk about how you... Because you started micro designing from podcast the the Joe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The false Damn. Mhmm.

Can you talk about a how you decided? How did how was that decision making you heard this podcast? Academy. And what was your next thought? Like, I'm gonna do it or where you really had tip.

The next thought was more like exploratory. Like, okay. I I've heard... And I did my own one of the deep dive into the Internet about psychedelics in general, especially psilocybin because that's what

Paul was talking about in that podcast. And I was like, well, how can I do this illegally?

You know, like, let's explore what the real options are here. I could apply for a clinical trial, which I did and eventually, didn't qualify for those are very hard to get into very few spots available for people to get into that. And once you're into them, mean still might be given a placebo. But then I looked at there's retreats in other countries. And at the time, like, we have a growing family, we're too nice government employees like,

I didn't have, like, five grand to blow on a wellness retreat. But you know, that sounded so

despite the dire situation that I was in to get on a flight away from my new fan my menu baby, my other child, my husband, and like, go with to Jamaica. It it it seemed like, surely there must be another way. You know?

Right. Let's do illegally. Yeah. We had to do it illegally, fortunately you want, and we figured it out. So my husband went on reddit in Youtube and wants videos. I think he I can he grew up around mushrooms. I this was not a new concept for him. Right? He is from Northeastern, Alabama. He was taught at fourteen years old, which mushrooms to pick off the cow patty. Yeah. Women his friends would go listen to music. It was a part of their culture there. So he was listening to that podcast being like this it... Like, confirming everything is like, yeah, everything that he's saying is true you're never hung over. You feel amazing. You don't wanna do it very much.

It's not like you're gonna have, like, seven days in a row, a lot of the mushroom bend, you do it once,

maybe twice and you're good for a long time. So he's at this point in time, we were in couples counseling because I was the only way I would go to therapy is if he was literally dragging me there, our marriage was suffering. I was a completely at mother, like, totally disengage with my children, not knowing what even going on at school. My nanny was full blown, raising my son. They thank God for her because she really filled in and was that emotional support for him that I really credit her for him being such a great kid. And because when I went there, those years zero to three are super informative, and they say, like, the more effects you give your child, the better you are, the better off of Ar are the our adults they're more functional they're more balance.

And I was just... I was doing this very, very minimum. I was feeding. I was just change diapers, but there was not a lot of love that they were getting for me. So I had... And and my husband filled in when he used kind of social work background, he understands the system. So he filled in and where he could where I was absent. So I had at least my children were taken care of in that way, but at this point, we were so desperate for a solution that we were like, let's just figure this out from the underground. You know She can buy spores online legally. So we bought the spores and we bought rest of supplies that like lowe's or Amazon. It was not very difficult to finals. Size. And we just experimented our first time, and it was super successful. We had amazing they're color flesh. We had his amazing flush. And it was cool to have this like science experience. So like oh, okay. We are growing medicine. This is awesome. So we did in our bedroom. It took a long time to, like, have mushrooms that we could eat. But how long would it take? Oh, man. At least, it was, like, three to six months. Oh my goodness. I have, like, memory issues from this period of time in that race? And as do most people who deal with true.

It's it that was, like, the... I feel like the saddest thing is like, oh, there's parts of my kids lives, but like, I just don't remember. So I'll go through my especially my husband's camera role

and seeing and he'll be like, do you remember this? So be like, I don't what were we doing? I don't I really don't recall certain things with them.

But the... I remember the mushrooms taking a little while to pick up because it it's in multiple phases. So it was a a good three to six months before we had any. So during this time, did you what was your... What was your mental state like? Were you like, okay? Well, there is a way. So I'm I'm just gonna get through each day or was their days that you were just like, fucking I'm gonna kill myself. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Because at this point in time, no alternative therapy had really worked for me. Mhmm like I said, before, I wasn't going to talk Therapy. I was getting dragged to couples therapy. So, like, I hated that process and it's just miserable doing that.

 So I was like, well, this is just gonna be another thing and if it works, consider me lucky, and then as it doesn't, like, either I get on the depression or I kill myself. And if I get on the depression, I show my kale myself. So there was really one option and one way out of this terrain, like, this I was convinced this was my life now, and this is just how I am and I'm forever changed. But I started micro, and, you know, there isn't a lot of data about micro producing, but I was really uncomfortable having a full blown psychology experience. These are not drugs I ever tried in my party days. I know it's never curious about My none of it. I thought I thought these were drugs were burnout out and, like, loser. And and like I I I had in my mind, the picture of somebody who takes a psychedelics and it's so funny that I'm doing this now because I'm I'm was so far off. Right now. Right. And so I was like, well, I'll just start with micro. Let me build up some confidence in in this process and dip my toes in first. And don't need to go all in. And was in a matter of of, like, three days. I was on the floor playing with my son, and that was the first time my husband had ever seen now.

Yeah. So he was like, for his my he's like be shit. Like, my wife is back The person I married, you know, And he always jokes around that he married me because I was quote unquote the normal you know, I was... I was a steady girlfriend that was just, like, always there. Never, you know, we never fought, and we had the most normal healthy relationship. I ever had. And so for him to see there's, like, tiny glimmer hope, he got really excited for it. So but I was still going do this process very cautious and not... Getting my hopes up too high because, you know, that disappointment I knew it was coming for me, but I continued with the micro and was getting into a rhythm with life, and was starting to feel good again. And then we run out of mushrooms. And I was like, okay. Well, maybe I just don't need to do this anymore. Mhmm. But my depression started to creep back. And we tried to grow another slash mushrooms, and it got contaminated.

They're they can it terminated very easily. Obviously, we're not doing this in a lab. Right we're doing it in our bedroom. So we tried to create sterile environment as my can make skin control matters,

And how does it can become contaminated? Just something in the area that wrote like he would whenever he was and not them, I think... You have you ain't knock. You said it's like a real different process. Oh you were sure. You can fringe. She was just gone to a farm.

I know. I know. But that like we... I've got two kids in the job.

I have time to go, like, Peru fires to the girl, Virginia, You know?

Can I just check out your cal? Sorry. They know what we're looking for too. I'm sure they're you.

Yeah. So this was like... And this was a way to do it in into us, it wasn't a controlled environment. No one knew we were doing this. We were two public servants, like, my husband has worked in Dc politics

and she has a lot of of very great hours of people here locally. And we didn't want anyone to know we were doing this. So it wasn't a situation where, like, we were asking our friends around

who had mushrooms. I'm sure somebody did we looked hard enough, but we were was very hush. She was... First of, no one really understood the gravity of what we were dealing with with my depression. And then

second, like, how do you ask your friends if they have the schedule one substance? I it like, send them to federal prison for decades. Do you know like, it is just That's a question that not a lot of people wanna ask

and So growing them was really the only option for us, and it was working for a really long time, but

when we click grow anymore, it became obvious. I needed to have, like, a a true intervention, and that's when I just got referred it. Alaska, and that was through one of our friends who one of, like, the three friends that knew when we were struggling and I say we were struggling. Was like, I was suffering from depression, but my husband was definitely struggling with keeping our life together. Right? You know, I have a lot of pressures. Yeah. I'm gonna hub for the family. And if if I'm not functioning properly, everything kind falls apart, and that's just...

The roles that we play. And, you know, it it was it was very hard on him, and I think that he is just now, like, getting out of, like, the post depression spells, and she blow back. That happens when somebody goes through something. In in a couple. But one of our friendswho Daniel talked to frequently about what we were going through 

was like,

she had her own experience with Iowa,

and I

in my own deep dive of looking our develops and what the landscape was I Can let why are they illegal, what's the history?

Why are policies the where they are?

What is the cultural history of this?

I was somewhat familiar with alaska, and I knew that it was something that

people were doing in South America and they're having amazing,

like, benefits from it.

People

would eventually just

go down to South America

have a a week long experience and come back and feel like

themselves again, and

but my friend was like, that this like, you don't need to go to soften america like he... There's a guy. I know he travels around, and I only by word of mouth, he's coming to New York City in two months,

just take a train and get up here.

And I think that, like, I wouldn't have even been gone on a train if it wasn't for the mushrooms getting me out of the very doable bowl. But at least like, I was in a place I felt okay to

partnership it and like you get on a trains in New York City

and

go through this, like, extremely sensory experience

of

just like getting through New York City to Brooklyn where this guy was host this ceremony. And,

you know, looking back, That was so incredibly brave of me or like dumb. I don't really know.

I that.

I no. I need to be a little dumb to be brave.

But

I went to the strangers apartment and with twenty people that I had never met before,

including the the healer,

and drinking or drink that he

he made himself, and I have no idea what's in it. I have no idea what if it would test positive for anything. Like we are in, like, the fentanyl

days of already writing, we only need to be really careful what we put in our bodies.

Especially with illicit of substances.

But at that point, again, I've had a little taste of relief from depression and

I was...

So I was hopeful that this could be the thing. Right? Like, with mushrooms, I'm like, I don't know if this was gonna work. We'll try

But I've...

In mushrooms and Are very different to totally different chemical structures.

But

I knew that they were the similar class of drugs. So I I was very hopeful that Ayahuasca was

gonna be what helped me. So I had a few ceremonies with that And

that

completely transformed my world and

allowed me to start building

my life back and

I don't think without

Or without that very big

experience was like could alex

I would have gotten there.

But, yeah. That's kind of

what started this whole

entirely trajectory in my life with what I'm doing right now.

It was an it... And it was a miserable experience

it not

a recreational drug by any means they don't rely anyone with just wouldn't wanna take that to get like, to party. It's it's maybe it was, like,

physically

extremely painful.

And

you get...

You vomit, you get diarrhea.

You

cry uncontrollably. You laugh on control. They there's moments when, like you just you just don't know, but it's it's doing something in your body. It's moving your energy around. It's

all that stress and trauma that we store in our body

and we don't know how. But like we store in places, like, and in some people, it's different in me was my gut, like, it was

it all came out of my system, and

I I woke up the next morning, and it wasn't like I woke being like, I am healed. Know. Like...

But

as time went on and those days went on, I started to

observe in, like,

things with shift. Like my perspective would shift on things, and I would

be like, well, well, this is something

that's not good for me and I need to change that. So I slowly started to

change the things in my life that we're not working for me

and until this day, still changing things in my life that are not working for me. And I really do credit dialogue for that. Yeah. I feel like for from... I haven't tried I I feel like it is in my near future,

but I did... I have heard that, you know,

it gave them the opportunity to make some changes

that they were scared to make previously in their and, you know, yeah life prior.

Yeah. I mean, you...

People that deal with depression,

you gets stuck in these loops in these trains of thoughts where you're you're... Keep telling yourself the same story over and over. It's like, you for everyone's different, but for me, is it's like,

you're not worthy of any of this. You don't appreciate the like you are... You've been given every single gift in the world and you're just sq it. You you don't love your children.

Your children will end up presenting you.

So that you get stuck in these loops, and I found that dialogue alaska broke me of that of that line of thinking and, like, it cleared the deck

so that I can

create new narratives about myself.

See that's what I need to do. Yeah. Yeah. It's just really powerful and if you if you do the diet beforehand, and you're really take seriously, you go in there

with an open mind and you're willing... You you understand that this is not gonna be the magic tool for you that it it is on you

to fix your life.

And

you can go into that experience of the open mind. It can be an extremely effective tool. I have heard

people with crazy stories of

walking into an ayahuasca ceremony

and, you know, dealing with debilitating

arthritis and their hands are all cramped up on the like, the fingers all granted up other actually like, they can spread their hands open, like, they're arthritis. And, like, that doesn't like the exception here. Right? Like,

we

still

have so much to learn about these medicines, but also,

the culturally

people in south America Have been doing this for centuries.

So there's something to this. Right if it wasn't working, this wouldn't be a practice that's currently hell today. Yeah. And and that's

pretty much with after that I ayahuasca gun

ceremony,

that you decided, I'm going to work on de decreasing

plant medicine in Dc.

I remember when that was on the ballot? Yes. Yeah.

Is definitely not my first spot at all.

But I was watching One Denver,

and that was the campaign two mushrooms for the city of denver.

And that was going on wow we were going through this process with, like, trying to grow our mushrooms and

sixteen succeeding and then failing and then finding How I walked. And

so being

kinda experiencing in politics,

my husband's worked on a few campaigns as well.

We were like, let's... You know, let's call up the campaign.

Like, you could find anybody on the Internet now. So

we connected to with him over Facebook, and we had a a really good call with him. And just asking like, what are

the noncitizens of Denver saying?

About this, like, what is law enforcement saying about this? When, you know, what what are what are your marketing materials? How are you talking about this in general public?

And,

you know, for us, we were just, like, curious

about

what our impact could be.

I think initially, we were

thinking of just utilizing

the our network

of political people

to just

educate, I guess, you know, we never... I've never wanted to be

a front person for anything

I was always really uncomfortable with attention.

I assumed

that my husband would be the one that has, like, this amazing career and, like, things would take off for him

because I mean, he was perfectly positioned to do that. He's worked for a politician for

So

it it it wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna be the spokesperson

for women everywhere who healed us themselves It was more like

Okay. We have we had this conversation in this conversation led to a connection with other people, and let's let's go have conversations with them too. And see how we can help.

So it was really just like connecting the dots as you go, like, driving and pitch black and, like, all you can see is, like, the next

step. Yeah.

But we kept taking more meetings, and then eventually,

We got connected to Doctor Bronzer folks in Dc. And so Doctor Bronzer is this

hippie show company that has all natural ingredients say I use work. Oh, yeah. Please use it for like, probably years. Yeah. Yeah that's. Amazing.

I love the peppermint. My favorite

in the cherry blossom there my

jam. Yeah. Yeah. So

I was like, oh, I know Doctor Bronzer, but like I didn't realize that they

ran to this. Oh, no. Yeah. Like, so they were... They've been really pivotal

pivotal and getting cannabis reform through. They were very active in Have form.

They... You know, David Bronzer puts

a lot of money into causes that he really cares about. A lot of that is regenerative farming and drug laws.

They were the ones sponsoring the Denver campaign. And

David is is pretty politically sorry he's got a team of people here

that he pays to be their, like, social activation team, like, they will put together a protest

or they will try to engage Dc council on this shoes

that are important to them.

Anyway, they

they were talking to dave the team here and David were talking and

they were, like, we if we could do this in Dc Dc is was it the forefront of canada your reform? Why wouldn't it

we be at the forefront front of Second reform. Mhmm.

But they knew that the campaign couldn't be run

by Cannabis folks.

Because it's a very different kind of subject matter. And I go at the time, carried

ton stigma I think cannabis is

rich away a few of those fears already.

But

they were talking to Kevin

Matthew is the guy in Denver who we who got us or start,

and Kevin was like,

you need to talk to a couple that morris and daniel

Excuse me.

They...

You just need to chat with them. So like you didn't say much about us. But then

the team here started to

go on Facebook and look us up and

turns out

they had already... They already knew my husband through his time at Stacy Council, and when they were working on cannabis reform for the city,

So they had my husband's

cell phone number

already, which was

extremely fortunate.

And at this point in time, we've connected enough dots and I like, I had identified key people in the city that, you know, if we were to do something,

This is her who you'll do work with And one of those guys of adam manager.

Who is

the Cannabis guy in Dc,

So my husband

sends me tax message, and he's like, I guess who I just talked to.

Could. You should be anyone.

He's like I'm a manager. They wanna take a dinner white talk about I know. I was like, let's

interesting.

So,

again, not really thinking that I would be running a campaign, but

we

we went out to dinner. I shared the experience that we went through and what we did,

and they were like you are the perfect person to, like,

spear a campaign. And just be the face

of

healing in Psychedelics through City, Dc.

And I was like, you were in shade not never

that campaign pain and I dana it. I know It was they was true I was convinced that, like,

they had taken crazy pills because like, I was... I was never that person.

Even speaking in public was terrifying to me. I was so cool with just being in the background.

No That's crazy. Yeah. But

so we had a back of we year a few months back and forth about doing this campaign. And I was like,

or...

You know, they got to a point where, like, we wanted to get on the general election ballot, like, the big

presidential ballot you can get way more of voter turnout out. Which increases your likelihood success,

And they tied time debt where they were, like, December of twenty nineteen was, like, the last

opportunity to

get the paperwork to the border of election so that everything can get approved in time and that we have time to get signatures and submit everything to get on the general election about it.

So we have been going back and forth with them and

it was then, like, trying to convince just do this, and we're, like, no No. No. Will help in the background. So I like, we're not gonna do this. So then Adam calls me and he's like, you know, I

like, you know where I stand on this? I think you should do this, but I completely understand if you don't wanna do this.

And I was just like, I can't. I can't guarantee

my children's safety in this situation,

like, at the time, nobody was talking about mental health. Nobody was talking Psychedelics.

I didn't know what was going to be said about me, or was gonna be sent about us.

I didn't know if they were gonna not get invited to kids parties from school anymore, like, with all the moms of school, like, just completely turn away from me and, like, think I'm some weirdo

like drug person that is just you know,

abusing my children and, like, having drugs in our house and feeling dangerous. I I had to like, go through that process. Like, figure out what was a worst case scenario.

And

I don't know this phone when it we went to bed and I was waiting and pen out she should so upset, and I like, you should feel good about the sister.

You know? Like, you got

the thing of the hanging over your head for a few months, like, you don't wanna do it. We we can't guarantee

what's gonna happen to our family.

But, like

why you upset I was like, I feel like this is opportunity.

The the last thing that Adam said, he was like, if you don't do this queue, if you don't wanna submit this paperwork like, we're gonna go ahead and do it anyway.

So

I knew that if I wasn't involved in the campaign that it would look drastically different

than what the campaign that would be run by me would look like. And the messaging would be different. And I don't know if it would worked.

The cannabis activist god bless them or are loud and,

you know, very open about their use cannabis

and

that is

that ten. That strategy can be really divisive with certain corners of politics.

And

I knew that

you get one shot at a first impression

and it's same with this issue.

Same with anything. You have one shot to make your big sl on public,

Did I want it to be a big loud campaign that was really colorful and, like,

you know, in your face or

with a campaign that was run by a working mother

that was blood with compassion and with back and science and

experience and experience and personal experience with, you know, and and

extending

compassion to others and being open and honest about what I have gone through and what is wrong with our system.

How would that look? And I just had a feeling in my gut that if I was running this campaign that it would be successful

because

people would hear me.

And in my mind just like, well, if I

a person who, you know, how to support a family

had, you know,

no trauma in my life that was my truly super notable.

If if I was that close to taking my life being the well resource person that I am Being a very privileged person that I am very fortunate to have the life that I had.

If I was that close to suicide,

how what is this experience like, for other people,

you know, that don't have the resources that I have.

That, you know, don't have a spouse so that's really supportive or, you know, have parents that they can fall back on.

So

I knew that I had a feeling that this issue was much bigger than

than what it what we were hearing

from society.

And

I knew that if I was... I took a chance

And I said, if I'm just opening and honest, hopefully, people will be receptive to that. And

understand why I took the rest that I did,

and

maybe they will that make them feel compelled to take action and

you know, demand that our governments

take this issue seriously

and past laws that support people that are dealing with these kind of issues.

So

the very next morning, I woke up I call it

and I said, okay.

I'm gonna do this campaign. He got so excited.

So I'm calling the attorneys right now. We're gonna draft up all the paperwork. And we're gonna go board elections today the last day. Oh my gosh.

So we submitted it on the very last day, and it was... I remember just seeing, like, my address on official, like vaglio initiative paperwork, and I was, like, holy shit. This is very real like this could totally blow up in my face.

But in my mind, like, I went through what the worst case scenario is, Like, we're banished from society. We are marked as the weird people. We have our scarlet letters on us.

And,

you know, and I told my husband are was, like, if that happens, we can just pick up in move if we've been in Dc for twenty years. We've navigated

through, you know, two recessions now,

you know, we've we've had really... We have really great work experience that we could just take somewhere else and no one will know who we are, and we can just start over. So that was my compilation prize like, okay. There's... It's not the been of the world. If this doesn't work out,

at least I have my house. You know? At least I feel like I've got my life back

I can go and take what I've learned from this experience. Just so not gonna live some tomorrow and let peacefully,

But, again, you plan and God.

Yeah

So we...

After we submitted the paperwork,

we were about to get on a road trip to

south where our families live.

We were going to Alabama for Christmas.

And I think that whole right home we're were just kind of like,

oh, shit. What did we just do? Like what what is our life, like, we we were like, because as soon as we got back from the holidays,

I was kicking off the camp officially. So I knew and after the holidays was through our life was forever change

in one way or another.

And

like, we they didn't really talk about it with his parents.

I never talked about this with my parents, they are not, like,

they were... My parents are very cool in many regards, especially from, like, their immigrants. So, usually, parents or immigrants are, like, super duper abstract and

I'm very protective of their children, like, they risk so much to create a new life in the Us for their children. And my parents are pretty cool about things, but this

No. No. It. They would have

been like, most you can't do this campaign

and I really think this will be a career or career killer for you. And,

you know, you've got two graduate degrees and you you're wasting your career on something like this. And what's the point of doing this? Like, they wouldn't have understood this and no. So I didn't talk to anybody about it. I only talked to my husband about it.

I talked to a few people

that worked at Dc council off the record, and,

you know, some them, like,

this could be successful, but I don't know. You know, it depends on how the campaign goes. You know?

But it was

It was definitely like, we we were walking into the unknown when we were getting back from the holidays. And

but it was... It was it was a crazy experience. You know? Like, twenty twenty was a crazy year for me. I mean, for everyone but I

yeah

how did I sign up? For. Yeah. But also,

probably one of the of the best year of my life. Like, I will never forget that because it shifted everything for me in a completely new direction.

And

I I do feel like I found my voice, and

a lot of these things that you just scare me, like, public speaking and

you know, being on camera,

you know, having, like, fifteen minutes the same. It was just like,

having the spotlight on me

was okay suddenly because

it was so

above and beyond any hang I have, You know, like Oh, I hate some my voice or. I I hate the how I look on Camera. Like, I I

overcame all of that because I knew

this issue is far too important

than to be concerned with something so trivial.

Yeah. My voice or how I look in. Right now.

So I got over a a lot of things and I got a lot of confidence back in twenty twenty

because, you know, recovering from depression is process.

There's not, like, one moment in time. You're like, oh, I'm not depressed anymore. It's like,

very long artist's process. Like, I'd still something I work on to this day.

It's a daily practice for me.

It it involves, like, being active and and having my diet in track. I definitely, like,

don't do it perfectly all the time it took you a while to get to this point even just because a lot of my time post depression has been in campaign you're running a a very new organization in a

an marketing industry. And

now it's it's like this is my next phase of healing really is

putting in into a daily practice and creating a system that works for me so that I'm never in that situation again.

Because, like, one thing that has linger is is anxiety, but I was managing it through, like,

completely diving into my work.

But then, like, in my idle times, it's like, I would sit my brain, would she'll be running, like, a hundred and miles hour because when... I was writing a campaign while working full time too.

So that was like a crazy.

What did they think about you doing this? You know, how does it was it's Dc government? Yeah. Yeah using our very small. So at the time,

that all this is happening Also changed jobs, and I went from being at The Hobbit city Hall.

To being in

in an agency. So I was... I was protected by a few layers of people and also

I wasn't going to the office every day. When I wasn't seeing right having.

I

I had this amazing cover where, like, we

I wasn't going to office. We're all behind

Zoom and

teams

and

you know, it it never...

I made sure that it never deserved my work,

which means I was working around the clock.

I never missed a deadline. I... You know, I I ensure that

my day job was good, and everything was taken care of.

Before I did anything with the campaign.

So

because I knew that if the moment that I would slip up at work, that would be... Then it would be a problem, but if I don't give them it excuse to, you know,

call me out something. And on my work product is good. Like, I that gives me good enough cover. So

I was really fortunate with the timing of all this,

even though running a campaign

with not having, especially a vaglio campaign where you need to get physical signatures by people. Yeah.

Like, that one of money in twenty twenty

right. And that was

sticky waters navigate through for sure. And we had to change Dc laws so that we didn't have to collection signature you're in person.

That you could send the balance to people's homes.

So we had to...

We have to kinda like, weather a period of time

that we didn't know if the campaign was gonna continue. Like, we kicked it off and it was going amazing and well, we even shifted it online started doing whatever we need to do Facebook ads, Instagram, town halls. We did it all online.

And the campaign was going well, but then we had this issue of actually getting signatures

that we didn't know how removed get through it. So

I had to

very patiently wait while Dc council was putting together multiple emergency

legislation packages to make sure, like, things don't just explain

completely explode in the city.

So, like,

you know, protecting health care workers and making sure there's supplies. Like, I remember, like, I felt like, I had to wait for my right time to make our ask because, like, we're just so a bow initiative of campaign about psychedelic drugs. Like, it's...

I I knew that it was not a top priority for Dc to change their laws to adapt to our campaign.

But we got some laws changes in the third round of emergency legislation on the last by basic council that allowed us

for somebody to self certify.

So when you have...

When you're doing a about of campaign, you get signatures and you have somebody that gather or signatures,

and they witness

the person signing that it's actually them and not fraud as somebody just signing names for people.

So there's a, like, Affidavit and everything.

So we to change laws

so that a person can self certify that they've witness their own signature.

So it's like kind of crazy, if we to change the form, and

and my argument was, like, we can't let our democracy die

in the middle of a public health emergency. Like, this is the foundation of everything that we're doing right, You know, the government unless continue.

And, you know, there's elements of our democracy that must continue,

otherwise

we're not a free country and it actually works. So I, it was like the the argument made sense to does they again. Yeah. Yeah.

So

Yeah. After that, we were

off the races.

Yeah. And you led the most

successful

vaglio initiative. Yeah. In the history

of

Dc,

Yeah. I mean,

you know, seventy six percent, that's crazy. Yeah. And now you are the political face at Seasons. Right? Yeah.

In front of psychedelic you are just... Yeah. Yeah. So

we won the campaign by seventy six percent.

I truly think it was because

I'm not too my own horn here, but, like, what it was take your horn.

It was very much like a regular person's story. You know? And I could I am a regular for some story.

It's funny as like the... At one point, I would have, like, news crews at our house and, like, this entire crazy set with cameras lights and all this.

And then Netflix was obviously filming parts in our campaign for I was in how to change your mind. Yeah. I watched that

like I knew.

And I did read. You had a a a wonderful piece. There is wonderful piece written about you in the watch Tony and too. I really enjoyed reading that. Yeah. That was probably one of my the most favorite things out the campaign paint was

the most normal psychedelic metallic ask ever. Yeah. Like

it it was funny to me. It's like I can't play it. And it's weird because on one hand, I would have a

I remember it

the day after the campaign, I was written up in high time magazine

in the Wall Street Journal. And I was like,

This is such a strange

dichotomy right where, like, I'm my name is in the Street journal, but also in high times, which is like an iconic cannabis magazine.

But,

yeah, it was a weird moment like, what is my life. Like, what am I doing? What am I gonna do with us? Like... I got... I accomplice this major thing,

and we educated so many Dc evidence about

checking all drugs and

you know,

what's wrong with our health care system and what's happening with these medicines. And,

you know, I wanted to do something with the I felt like this is an opportunity.

And like I just couldn't go back to my old job. You know? I know you eat I mean, you are now the say of a movement. And, you know, that you you now are connected to... With, you know, you just had a briefing last week. Yeah. Wow. It's just with the things that you're doing. Mhmm. It's just amazing. Yeah. You. That's really, like,all that is very much not about, like, what I personally want to accomplice. But is very much like, what is the need for this... These medicines to get into the hands of American people and the safest way possible in the most affordable way possible. And I truly think that this federal advocacy piece has been the one piece that was missing prior to me.

Creating second Medicine coalition. There was no organizing body kind of creating the strategic pathway forward for Psychedelic federal policy. I had watched cannabis reform just having the policy background that I have and just seeing how that distorted effort was like, the states were progressing, like, rapid fire, and then the federal government was you know, left behind. I mean, they're they were really left behind, but I think that Canvas industry was so, excited about the progress of was b managed shaped I a lot of focus went there, And then there wasn't an effort to organize the voices and cannabis reform for the federal government. And

like I said, you get one shot to make it for suppression. So the first impression with cannabis was that there the the obvious flooded the gates and the the quote industry didn't come together and have consensus building. It was very throat, and a lot of what could have been amazing small businesses or small growers, you know, thrive. It was kinda just like corporate cannabis to Them and left the little main behind. And also, there's this huge criminal justice issue that continues to go undergrad.

With the disproportionate amount of black man that are still in prison for cannabis events as well.

People can run to a dispensary and writing, get their cannabis so, like there's a lot of holes in the in the policy space that that never were really addressed so now. You know,

in congress and mind like, well, we're gonna states do what they want.

And

we're

we're not gonna... I'm not gonna hang my hat. There's not a very few... Until recently, there's been very few

senators and representatives I've willing to hang their head on Cannabis. So

seeing that, and then knowing what the space like, a lot of the culture is like,

addition to the West Coast, and it's very much like a West Coast cultural thing.

Which is why I think there was a lot of excitement about the Dc campaign doing so. Well. Mhmm.

But I knew that for this issue to be can have an impact on congress and actually, like, change laws that supported people having safe to affordable access. I knew that I needed to create an association that represents

the entire movement because the sensations are really powerful. This like, yeah That there here you go. There's one association that's been extremely effective in getting

laws that benefit their members. Right? There's a reason why they have offices over on the capital, and they're very they work side by side. They are the go between switching industry and lawmakers, and they do kind of synthesize his eyes what what really needs to make it through and what doesn't it?

And really strategize on on on the path forward. So I created Check medicine coalition,

and we launched it in January twenty twenty one. And we immediately realized that,

like, before we ask for anything, like, we need to educate members of congress. There is very little knowledge

about the potential psychedelic could medicine on a federal level. So since then, we have... I created over two hundred and fifty offices on the hill.

We've done two briefings now. Our most recent one was last week, where we had Tim Far zooming in

with Rick Wo who's executive director maps who's taking Md through clinical trial Fda. Yeah. Who's been who's been up pioneer and doing this for, like, thirty seven years.

Doing it all with answering, no investors. He's got a public benefit corporation that's doing it because he really does want this to be something that the public can benefit from and not an investment play.

So, you know, we are here to really be a conduit for the psychedelic space.

To speak to their federal government and work with them. On addressing a lot of the issues that will need to be addressed. So we have multiple and clinical trial right now. We have May that's not to be approved

psilocybin compass path just city you so excited through Fda clinical trial, though they will be approved probably a year or two after I'm the is approved. This is going to be a part of our system. Absolutely. But

what will just look like and it's not a drug that you can just say this is approved, let's send it to offices so that

doctors can give it to their patients. It's not a traditional pharmaceutical point. This requires, at least a protocol for Md requires to two practitioners in the room at the same time.

Sixteen hours prior to your first treatment with, I believe that there's three that you get, and then there's sixty hours after So this is a huge time commitment to just get one patient through one session with.

And our system quite frankly can't handle that. Like, we barely have enough therapist

for people a lot of this work is is not reversible, so people don't wanna do it. You have to pay on a pocket for it. Yeah. Problem. There's a huge lot in therapist color that can speak to different demographics of people if we've got people that are dealing with racial trauma, they do not wanna go to a therapist that looks like somebody that happens like did in racial terms then, like, it has it, it's you're so vulnerable in these moments and the things that you're dealing with are so deep, that, you know, you you you gotta ensure that somebody's comfortable or otherwise, it gonna be a really bad experience it can like, negative effects on somebody so and even be handled with care. Yeah. Well... Absolutely. This is a completely different paradigm that we're trying to insert in our very rigid health care system. That does not have a mind body connection angle to it at all.

Yeah. It is it's there's a lot that we need to address and, you know, our coalition can be really effective in doing that with bringing people together and getting getting the policymakers makers to understand that this is

not a political bomb that you're taking on. This isn't gonna be brought up in your reelection campaign because that's really what they care about when they're name congress, But ultimately, they're a politician and they you know. They have to cater to their voters. Yeah.

So they are very concerned with getting behind issues that would impact them negatively. And you know, it's just figuring out what they care about and what they've got through in life and, like, finding a way to wedge a story related to In there, you know? And the the first, like, crew to lead the charge in this our veteran. Mhmm. And I think everyone is kind of understanding that, you know, if we could bring to pull our opposite on a political structure together on this issue. This can be really effective and powerful. Like, the one thing that people on the hill have been bipartisan about is Psychedelic medicine.

So veterans are a very specific demographic. They garner a lot of compassion. They've sacrificed a lot for our country, and they've really been dealing with like, a terrible situation with the Mental health swore. Right?

not even in more times, but, like, there's issues that people in the military deal with, like, we had Whiz Buckley who is exactly director of a foundation called No Fallen heroes. Use was a top gun pilot, and

he was at the briefing last week. And he was sharing that, like, his issues didn't come from Combat.

None of them did. It was just the nature of the work, and trying to be in a plane where you're dealing with like multiple g forces and then landing the plane and the noise and the fact that he he constantly hears a noise in his ear to this day, You know, there's the the nature of the workers is so different. So intense that

if we're not addressing any of these issues, Like, I think the military gonna have, like, a... I mean, I think they do have a recruitment problem. But, you know, how effective can they be as an organization if the soldiers aren't well. And that that's that brings together two different angles with the political spectrum. Absolutely.

Lorilee Binstock:

Well, I think your story is also something that's extremely important because you are completely fine isn't before you became a mother they're... And and for women, and I think it's also hard for them to really want to dive into

psychedelics.

I know that there are a lot of articles now coming out that, like, a long mushrooms Yeah. Or, you know,

which I think is great. Because I I also micro and it very effective for me, but I think your story

Seeking Self-Worth

This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, March 8th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat. 

Today’s guest is Christine MacDonald, Author of the memoir, Face Value, From Stripper Pole to Baring My Soul. 

Lorilee Binstock  00:00:38 
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience.
I am your host glory been stock. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting to hop on stage or sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get to you, but I do ask that everyone be respectful.
Today's guest is Christine Macdonald's author of the book Face Value: From Stripper Pole to Baring my Soul, which actually
comes out two today, And you could actually, if you are interested that scrolling fortune cookie right there in the middle of your screen, that will take you to purchase her book. Christine, thank you so much for joining me today.

Christine Macdonald  00:01:43 
Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Can you hear me?

Lorilee Binstock  00:01:45 
I can hear you perfectly.
Thank you so much.

Christine Macdonald  00:01:48 
Yeah. Thank you.

Lorilee Binstock  00:01:49 
So I
I wanted to get to to it because I feel like there's so much to cover
with your story.
You have struggled a lot
with trauma as a child, which eventually led you into the adulthood repayment industry.
I just wanna to know if you could just share journey a little bit with us.

Christine Macdonald  00:02:08 
Oh, I'm happy too. And you're right. There's there's a whole bunch of... It's like wheel Fortune named named that trauma. But here's... But here's the thing. Don't we all have
something in our lives? And, of course, it's not a contest. Right? So every single one of us, I'm of the belief that we're all in recovery from something. And, of course, more,

Lorilee Binstock  00:02:20 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:02:29 
you know, there are some people who have a a harder journey, But, yes, I've had
some several traumas as a child. It really just compounded
my choices that I made as a young adult, so I started out
the the trauma really started when I was at age thirteen,
and I
just just
you know, thirteen is such a tender age as it is. Right? I mean, you're a freshman in high school
and

Lorilee Binstock  00:02:56 
Hormones.

Christine Macdonald  00:02:58 
exact. And so all of a sudden, and I started noticing
these big
blood filled cysts all over my face, my chest, my back,

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:06 
Well.

Christine Macdonald  00:03:07 
And I didn't know what was going on. And I I just kept
telling my mom. This is... I don't think this is normal ask me. And, you know, God loved my mom. She just was, like, hoping it would just go away. And it didn't. So we ended up meeting to see a doctor.
It turns out my diagnosis
was
is very, very
rare. It's called Acne Michelangelo.
And basically, you're it's a very severe
severe form of cystic acne where
normal topical solutions that this is not part of the remedy for this case.
So I started seeing the doctor, and
but it was too late at that point. The scars were left,
and long stars short,

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:47 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:03:49 
you know, they called me Freddie Krueger in high school. They were mer,

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:51 
Yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:03:52 
and it was just one of those things where my value
was,
you know, as all of ours, I think when they're at at that young and impression age, my value was just really predicated on how people thought of me. And so
when people started calling me, you know, moon face, pizza face, Freddie Kruger, my self esteem just plummeted.

Lorilee Binstock  00:04:13 
Mhmm

Christine Macdonald  00:04:13 
And so on top of that,
I
I reached out to any substances like could fine. And it if it was the eighties. So, you know, cocaine was the glamour drug. And so that sort of just compounded the trauma with living with this
disease all over my skin and my body.
And then
I was sexually abused at that same year at thirteen.
But I was so warped with my thinking that I I really truly thought it meant I was pretty,
Like, somebody

Lorilee Binstock  00:04:43 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:04:44 
somebody taking my virginity, somebody
was giving me attention sexually,
even though my face was you know, covered in these blood filled says purple golf ball size that would break open in my sleep.

Lorilee Binstock  00:04:57 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:04:58 
So it was just a whole little. I mean, it was definitely
was definitely a lot,
but
it... It's interesting. I mean... And I think you can attest to this. When you suffer,
it trauma and, you know, you can add to that verbal and physical abuse
in the house.

Lorilee Binstock  00:05:16 
Yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:05:17 
It's just it really it shapes your choices as a young adult,
And that's where I fell into the stripping world because,
you know, along the heels of being called Freddie Krueger, I was nineteen years old when I was asked to do a wet t contest.
So I walked into this world in Waikiki key. Right, which is such a just position because it's like,

Lorilee Binstock  00:05:37 
Yeah

Christine Macdonald  00:05:38 
supposed to be paradise, and I'm I'm going through all this darkness, but I found
my beauty onstage stage
because I took somebody giving me a dollar bill
is a validation that I was pretty much like this sexual abuse was validation that I was pretty. So that's sort of the journey, and that's what I talk about in the book. And really, it's about how I got out of it. How I pulled myself out of that world after

Lorilee Binstock  00:05:52 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:06:02 
a near decade of trying to find myself worth.
Very long winded did answer sure for the first question?

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:07 
No. No. It's great. You could keep going on.

Christine Macdonald  00:06:10 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:10 
But I do... You know, it
kids are horrible. Teenagers are can be so
horrible. I remember as a in middle school. I I had horrible teeth, my teeth actually
I had teeth growing behind my teeth because my mouth was so small and so crowded. And I remember the throwing, and I tell the story a lot.
I remember throwing, like,
an m and m and catching it in my mouth. And I guess my mouth was open and tilted back where everyone could see, like, another
like, more teeth behind my regular teeth and they were... They they started calling me sharks teeth for the longest time.

Christine Macdonald  00:06:41 
Mhmm.
Oh, and that's yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:45 
And that's really
it's hard. It's hard
because kids can be ruthless when it comes to
to, you know, making fun of people because they're insecure too. Teenagers are very insecure people,

Christine Macdonald  00:06:58 
Mhmm. Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:59 
and they don't understand that, you know, the reason why they're making fun of other people can their own they have their own issues that they they're too scared to deal with.

Christine Macdonald  00:07:09 
So true. No true.

Lorilee Binstock  00:07:09 
But I...
Yeah.
I I find it interesting to but, you know, when you are sexually abused, did you... So you... Your you're thinking was work you mentioned.

Christine Macdonald  00:07:20 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:07:20 
But
when did you realize that that was... That was wrong that that was
that that was and that was
Rape, I guess.

Christine Macdonald  00:07:30 
It was right. Yeah. Exactly.
It's interesting that you say that because I'm talking years decades.
I... First of all, I knew something wasn't right
because
After the incident, I thought he was my boyfriend. I honestly thought he was my boyfriend, which is very sad, but it's very telling of where my mind was at the time.
So I became this little st in high school. And this dude was, you know, he was sixteen years old. I was thirteen,
and it was just one of those things where I truly thought that Meant was pretty and that he was my boyfriend. So I got a clue pretty early on when the rumors started swirl. And quite honestly, it took me
intensive therapy,
and I was in my early forties.
So that's a long time. Right? I was in my forties, and I finally was able to number one, forgive myself because I felt like,

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:15 
Yay.

Christine Macdonald  00:08:23 
I was very confused. I knew there was something not right about it, but I didn't wanna call it rape. And quite honestly, you know, Amy Schumer says this in her book,
she talks about something very similar. She was passed out,
she was taken advantage of without her consent. So when I share that with my therapist,
I felt like, I wasn't...
Like, I didn't qualify if that makes sense. You know what I mean? Like, when people when people think rates, they think it's a brutal attack and and all of these things, I I was passed out and I was thirteen, and I woke up, and

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:48 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:08:58 
I didn't have anything on my bottoms, and it was a it was a beach penny pat camp. I mean, you can't get more hawaiian than that right?
So let's could Pat camp.
My bathing suit was rolled up in a ball. It had blood on it. So I knew something was up, but it took so long for me to really wrap my head around the fact that, yeah, It was great, and it's okay.

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:14 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:09:21 
I mean, the rake wasn't okay, but it's okay that it happened. It wasn't my fault.

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:23 
Right.

Christine Macdonald  00:09:27 
So a lot of insight with sarah
truly understand, and then also forgive myself
and then forgive to forgive this person.

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:33 
Yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:09:36 
You know, it it wasn't a violent attack, but it just definitely was something that changed the course of my life.

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:43 
So... And then when you went to, you said at nineteen, you're asked to do this. What t shirt contest.

Christine Macdonald  00:09:49 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:50 
And this was
what was that feeling when you were asked?
And when you eventually... You you did it. I'm assuming.

Christine Macdonald  00:09:57 
Yes. I did it. And, you know, it's interesting because I was with one of my
girlfriends, and she's in the book prominently, And it's a funny funny way how we met, and I won't spoil it for you, But she she she was the other woman. I found her information and who I thought was my boyfriend, You can see the theme here.

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:15 
Yeah

Christine Macdonald  00:10:15 
Very toxic partner,
he was ten years older than I was. He was a drug dealer. I mean, all sorts of bad news, which, of course, I was completely attracted to.

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:25 
yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:10:26 
But I found this women's
information in his things, and so I just picked up the phone and called her and said, look, I don't know if you know this. But I'm with this guy, and then she said, oh, oh my god. I had no idea anyway, Long story short her and I became girlfriends. She is be beautiful. And and,

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:41 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:10:44 
you know, one of those Barbie doll looking girls that are just so natural,
not like fake plaster Barbie, but I'm talking, like, the quintessential Christie brink over time. You know?

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:54 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:10:54 
And so her and I work together on the beach
And, you know, we were young. We had rock and bodies, but she was the... She was the beauty queen. Right? And I did not feel
like, I was approached because of me. I was supposed to be... We were both approached because of her. And so she basically told the gentleman who was recruiting women for these what teacher contests.
She'll... She says, I'll do it if my girlfriend can do it, and that that was me. She says she's a great answer.
Which is true.
So
so the way that I felt when I was on that stage, and, of course, you know, substances were involved. So that's always
something that I... Yeah. Exactly.

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:32 
Makes it easier.

Christine Macdonald  00:11:35 
The way I felt onstage stage with my big bond Jo Bush live nineteen eighty seven here in my gold eye shadow

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:41 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:11:41 
for the fur for the first time ever.
I felt beautiful.
I felt like I was hiding in plain sight, meaning my face was exposed, but it was it was just covered in in all of this eighties hair.
But truly, that dollar that people were giving me on stage was so validating
and just a big, like,
look at who's Freddie Krueger now? You know what I mean? Like, just three years just three years earlier,

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:05 
Yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:12:07 
I was cutting school because I was so tormented.
So I felt nothing but validation and power and beautiful.

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:15 
So and this was your par into
into the adult entertainment world or how how did how did you
start your career in that in adult entertainment.

Christine Macdonald  00:12:27 
Well,
ironically, you know if I won the contest, which was

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:31 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:12:31 
real,
and I was offered a job at this chocolate bar now in Waikiki Key,
back then I can't speak to the scene now, but that then the age
where you could dis disprove. It was a top of bar was twenty one. So I bikini danced until I was twenty one. And by the time
I
you know, by the time I had my twenty first they. I was so
with it. It was like, no big deal to take my top off. And then the next day,
I had some customers say, well, now that you're twenty one, you could make make even more money if you go up the street to the nude bar. And so I was just full Throttle all the way through.
You know? And I loved it. I loved every minute of it.

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:15 
Did you experience any trauma
during your career as an an adult entertainer?

Christine Macdonald  00:13:21 
I did. I did and mostly drug related mostly with men
And I would have to say, of course, I don't, you know, I don't subscribe to the
the idea that I deserved it. But my choices were
definitely
a part of that. I chose very toxic partners,
the drugs and all of that. So the trauma was sort of a revolving door, hamster wheel
of you know, it's interesting the j where you feel so powerful and beautiful.
But at the same time, you're you're... And for me personally, I can't speak to other dancers answers, but I felt beautiful and powerful, but it was stripping my beauty away little by little. If that makes sense.

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:54 
Mhmm.
Did you think of that at the time though?

Christine Macdonald  00:14:06 
No.
No. I I didn't. Only when I was writing my story, I was like, oh, man. I wanna give back a little girl hug.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:07 
Right. Yeah.
Oh, garrett. I mean,
trauma really just builds on trauma. You're not healing it. Right? It's you know, it just... Like you said the substances is and

Christine Macdonald  00:14:20 
Exactly.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:23 
the coping that you... And typically, it's mala
until you realize it.
When did you become aware? What when did you decide to get out of the adult entertainment industry?

Christine Macdonald  00:14:36 
Great question. I was in my late twenties,
and you know, when you're in your
you know, when you're facing the barrel of thirty,
and you think you're getting so old. You're, like, oh my gosh. I'm gonna be thirty.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:48 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:14:50 
So I
I I can't you know, I don't understand the lifeline of when people go to college. You know, the norm the people that do it the right way. Right? So here I am and my, my college really was the stripping years,
And I recall being sober burnt out, and this is in the book. There's a chapter called voluntary
termination that I'm very proud of, and it really goes and explains step by step
how I came to the realization,
and it was very, very
quiet.
It was very simple,
And I was in the dressing room. I was twenty,
I would say late twenties
and I And I it was very heavy on my mind thinking. Oh my gosh. I'm am I gonna be a senior citizen on the poll? Because, of course, when you're thirty, you think you're a senior head.
So I'm right. It's so I'm looking in mirror, and... And I'm using my foundation and I'm covering my skin and I'm, you know, I've always had this relationship with my skin

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:37 
No goodness.

Christine Macdonald  00:15:48 
where I have for decades try to pretend my scars did not exist. But now
as I'm older, I embrace my scars because they're part of who I am and I always say your flaws are your flavor.
So anything that you feel embarrassed about or that you've been teased about, those things make up who you are, they're part of your flavor. So

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:10 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:16:11 
embrace them. But back then, I didn't... I wasn't there yet. So here I am in the dressing arm. Time of grows behind me the collected clerk of their heels,
and the buzz you know, all the buzz of the girls. I don't know if you've been around a
a bunch of high girls, but they're like, birds.
A squat. You know, they're coffee.

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:29 
Oh my gosh. That's hilarious.

Christine Macdonald  00:16:32 
Yeah. And so they're like.
So I'm I'm trying to focus on putting my makeup on. I'm kinda tuning out the girls behind me. I am really hung over as per usual. That was just another day ending and why. Right? So I'm putting my makeup on
and something just hit me, and I thought,
okay. And I'm looking in my eyes.
I see no blue. It's all gray.
And
I
saw myself,
like, wow. You're almost thirty. What you gonna do with your life? You don't have a college education.
Dropped out because you couldn't handle the hours because I was party girl. Right? And then at that very moment, when I connected with my eyes, I see a brand new girl who I've never
seen before, come into the dressing room, and she was probably nineteen.

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:19 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:17:19 
And
I looked at her, and I saw myself in her, and I thought
god, I wanna just hug her and tell her
save your money. I'm not gonna judge you. I'm not gonna tell you not to do this, but I wanna tell you to save your money, stay off the drugs,
have a good head on your shoulders, but I didn't. I stayed in my own lane,
but just seeing that girl
had me flashback of the near decade career that I had. And so
without even realizing it, I started putting my makeup back in my bag and lift it up,
sp my bounce over my shoulders, stood up and looked in the mirror and said out loud to myself, I think you're done.

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:57 
Oh, wow.

Christine Macdonald  00:17:58 
And that I just walked out and looks for a pay phone.
There was no Internet herself the back.
What's for a pay phone called my mom, who I was estranged with at the time.
And god lover, she... I basically said what are you doing? And I was almost crying because I was so scared,
and I did know what my life gonna be... But I, of course, wanted my mommy.

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:20 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:18:20 
And so I called her up, and I said, what are you doing? And she I'm cooking dinner, Do you wanna come over? And I was so
grateful for that because I did. I went over to her house, and my sister had just had a baby so she was holding her newborn.
My mom was cooking spaghetti. So soon as a friend are open, I just... I was welcomed by that
amazing smell of home. You know?

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:42 
Mhmm

Christine Macdonald  00:18:42 
And I remember looking at my sister, and I remember being at my mom's house and thinking, wow, Just an hour earlier, I was around naked.
High girls
talking. Like, you know what I mean? And I thought this is real life. This is what I want. And at that moment, I just asked my mom I need to move home. I need to save up money because I'm gonna get off this island and find a new life.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:04 
Wow.
Oh, so, you grew up in Hawaii until your moment not far from where you were were dancing.

Christine Macdonald  00:19:07 
Yes.
Correct. Yeah. And then, unfortunately, she... I was such a nightmare
addict
that she... I mean, I I'm I'm not a parent. So I can't even imagine.
She just... I I don't wanna say gave up, but she was just
there was nothing she could do. There was no talking to me. She was just like, she's gonna need to find out on her own,

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:27 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:19:31 
and she prayed that I would come around and, you know, I did, which is great.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:36 
And so you found you decided, okay.
I'm...
That road is not for me anymore.
What did you end up doing?

Christine Macdonald  00:19:43 
Mhmm.
I sold all of my belongings. I made the very naive
choice to leave the island, which I don't think is really... It was not a bad decision it's probably the best decision I ever made because I found myself
really having to grow up. And and I was in my late twenties. So
I always say I lost in a way, a decade of my life because I was using.
And so I really left the island
in mentally, like, eighteen years old, nineteen years old because I'd lost so much in my life, but I was in my late twenties,
and
I just knew that leaving was the best
decision
and finding new friends and just starting over.
But then, you know,
couple years later, I realized, oh, you can't run away from your addictions. So that was addressed as well, which is also in the book. But the best decision, the thing that really catapult my change was leaving the island and
just shake it off those those friends that you thought were friends, but they were just your party friends.

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:49 
So how did you...
How did you work with your addiction? When did you realize? Well, it sounds like you're were like, okay. I can't I can't escape this. How did you heal from it? Or how did you break the addiction or break any of these,
you know, behavioral
cycles?
Or actually even

Christine Macdonald  00:21:06 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:08 
be beware of the the patterns.

Christine Macdonald  00:21:10 
Well, interesting question because I thought just leaving the island was enough. And I thought, oh, I'm such a rock. I could walk away from the Coke. I could walk away from the ecstasy and all those other things I was doing, and I was really
sn about it to be honest with you I thought and they rehab. I'm good. I honestly did not think I was an addict until
in my thirties,
I had a relapse with prescription drugs,
and that's a whole nother animal because in in an addicts mind, do you think Oh, this is from a doctor. I'm fine.
And, of course, that doesn't... That's never the case. But

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:44 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:21:49 
realizing that I was an attic, took be relaxing and being in a detox word for a week.
And and really
understanding after going to meetings and things like, oh, yeah. So my party self in my twenties
never left. I just changed the scenery.

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:05 
Yep.

Christine Macdonald  00:22:05 
So getting real with yourself is
not for the faint of heart.
Right? You have to take responsibility for your choices, and
Yeah. Once I... Once I realized that the two were not
so different that my party self
just
manifested in other ways, and then I was able to do the do the work with therapy.

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:28 
Well so in that time,
when you left
this adult entertainment world, and you were finding yourself,
what was happening with yourself worth?
Did it make? Did it
did you want to go back to the stripping?
How did you
manage
dealing with that that feeling of
finding yourself worth? And and and

Christine Macdonald  00:22:53 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:54 
needing longing for that helpful.

Christine Macdonald  00:22:57 
Realizing that the real world wasn't gonna saves me and that the real world was actually
a lot harder than I thought.
How did I
how did I manage
for a long time?
I didn't... I I still suffered low self steam and that manifested in every single choice of partner I ever dated, and I had a therapist what tell me? I had a therapist one.

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:20 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:23:24 
If you cut off all the heads of everyone you've ever dated, and I said, let's take a moment to just visualize that because I gotta I kinda like that. But when when this therapist said that to me, she says, they're interchangeable.

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:30 
Yeah

Christine Macdonald  00:23:37 
You you pick these stricter or upper and then complain that there's no good people out there today. It's because you don't feel like you're worthy
of any
one who's good for you. Like, I did not feel Like was worthy of a nice
person. And also, when you grow up, and I think you can attest
when you grow up with chaos,
we subconsciously create chaos because that's home.

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:00 
Yep.

Christine Macdonald  00:24:01 
You know, chaos is home. We don't understand when our phone's not blowing up when we don't have any fires to put out when we're not fret

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:01 
Yep.

Christine Macdonald  00:24:08 
whether the person we're seeing is cheating on us and getting through their phone for answers, all of those things are based on low self esteem.

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:16 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:24:16 
And I did not realize that at the time. And so I spent the better part of my thirties and forties
after I left the stage.
Really having
to work on myself esteem. And then I finally got a clue
when I was just exhausted from being heartbroken
and realizing through therapy
that I had more control than I thought.
Like, there... It's not that there are no good people there it's just that I'm choosing the ones
that are bad for me because I just didn't feel like I was worse.
Anyone better.
So that's

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:50 
Yeah. There's like there's like comfort in the same people that you you date
in a way.

Christine Macdonald  00:24:54 
Exactly. It's a familiarity
that
it's
it's hard to shake. It's like a trauma bond. Right?

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:01 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:25:02 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:04 
Did you...
So what was it? Was there something
that happened because I feel I I'm dealing with this. Constantly now I'm continuously working on feeling like I'm enough.
What was it? That did it for you. Was there something that made it click besides her saying you have more control? And I feel like I... I do have control, but
I mean, there are days where I'm just like,
am I enough, and then I question it.

Christine Macdonald  00:25:33 
Oh, totally.
Hold, totally. It's really a hard net to crack, and it's so embedded into our
our psyche
because, you know, rewire
those parts of our brain, I think, is a lifelong journey, I mean it's truly...
It's not easy to do, but the fact that we're aware of it is a huge plus. Right? Like, we know our intellect I always say that my... You know, our brains have the intellect side and then the emotional side. So when my emotional side starts to kick in and say, oh, who's gonna read your book? You're not you're nobody. You're not famous, blah blah blah blah, and then I have the other side, the intellect that says, damn straight. Everyone's gonna read my book. This is a really great story, and it's gonna inspire people. So it's just balancing those two positive and negatives,

Lorilee Binstock  00:26:15 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:26:21 
but surrounding yourself
with people who list you up
and only wanna us to you succeed
that unconditional love, your sister, your brotherhood, people that are in your corner.
That's
what helps lift me and realize
that I'm worth it. In fact, my best best girlfriend
I was... I received converter flowers from someone because of my book release, and I was falling

Lorilee Binstock  00:26:48 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:26:49 
because I'm not used in receiving love where there's no catch.
Like, I used to always think if I get love, then what's it gonna cost me, like, it was a transactional

Lorilee Binstock  00:26:54 
Yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:26:59 
thing
when people truly love you, they don't want anything from you. They just love you who you are.
And
I text my best girlfriend, and I said, I'm really having a hard time
believing I'm worth this. And she said, you remember that movie moons with share?

Lorilee Binstock  00:27:13 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:27:16 
She's she said, what that out of it.
She goes you are worth it step out of it. So surrounding yourself with people that truly truly only want the best for you. They don't have any
motives. There's nothing in it for them. I think that's huge. I think that really helps with your self esteem.

Lorilee Binstock  00:27:37 
It really sounds like your mom
was
kind of that person.

Christine Macdonald  00:27:43 
She was great. She had her own missteps, and I... And I do explain that in the book there are many things that,
you know, she wishes
she and, of course, I do too.
She didn't do or could have done better
but
she's been my support system through this book. Even though
there's a part of her, of course, she's a mom. She doesn't want
the world to know that her baby made all these missteps and choices. But in the end, she's... She's been great. Yeah. She's very worried about this book, but I told her I said, look, anyone who reads the book is gonna know

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:17 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:28:18 
that you have your home messed missteps because you were raised by someone who was not healthy.
So you know, the cycle. It's a cycle. Right?

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:25 
Right.
It's the cycle.
Exactly.

Christine Macdonald  00:28:27 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:29 
Well,
looking back at the entertainment
industry now,
what are your... What are your personal thoughts?
And it sounds like when... When that nineteen year old
girl walked through,
you're... You you had a lot that you wanted to say to this person.

Christine Macdonald  00:28:45 
Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
It's interesting because I... Since I...
Been promoting self promoting this book. I got on Tick talk,
and I had no idea what to expect. You know, I'm a Gen x or I'm just like, I didn't even know how to do this whole business, but I'm gonna try

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:01 
Yeah

Christine Macdonald  00:29:02 
because, you know, social media is basically the best advertised you can do. And if you can gain a healthy following,
it's a great way to get your message out. Right? So I am on talk, and most of my followers

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:11 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:29:15 
are current spicy dancers,
And
they are Absolutely
amazing. Each and every one of them has a story, and I don't know if you've ever seen Orange just black.

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:26 
Yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:29:27 
But you know how the template of that story is,
you really get to know the backstory of every inmates.
And then you form an empathy that you didn't realize you could have for someone who is in prison

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:41 
Right.

Christine Macdonald  00:29:42 
because
were against them and whatever whatever resources they had to do, which, of course, isn't to say
they shouldn't be imprisoned, but you wanna have
an idea of their why and every single girl onstage stage, whether you're on stage or in a pen country, there's a reason

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:55 
Right.

Christine Macdonald  00:30:01 
and they're not necessarily bad people.
So I am finding myself I feel like they're aunts or their house mom.

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:09 
Yeah

Christine Macdonald  00:30:09 
And a lot of them come to me and say you give me inspiration that there is life after the pull. Because it's a young woman's game.
And like I said, I was almost thirty, and I was freaking out that I was gonna be a senior citizen on the pool. So I never judge them. I support them.
And I just... If they asked my advice because I never wanna give it unsolicited.
I just say try and save some of your money and hold on to your
yourself love and your power because it is a very
seductive
part in the pun
industry, or you can get really wrapped up in the drugs so you can get wrapped up in the money, and then, of course, the next thing, you know, you're thirty.

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:43 
Mhmm.
And there you are.

Christine Macdonald  00:30:53 
And there you are.

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:56 
Is there would you say because I think
a lot of that has to do with self love and self worth. And do you think people who go into...
Do you think there are people who go into the adult entertainment world
who
are already strong, and their self love and their self worth.

Christine Macdonald  00:31:15 
I do. I do. And I've worked with women that had their...
Can I swear?

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:20 
Of course, Go for it.

Christine Macdonald  00:31:21 
Okay.
I've work... I've worked with women who had their shit together. Like, they were
college students. They were moms during the day, and they were trying to supplement.
You know, that trying to feed their child,
not all of the women
that are, you know, choose the sex industry the sex work industry, whether it's,
spicy dancing or now is all virtual. Right? They have there's only fans. There's

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:47 
Oh, yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:31:48 
there's sex work in the
in the literal sense, which I I never crossed over to do, but I have many friends that did. All of those things
you're not necessarily broken.
Everybody has their own reason,

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:02 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:32:02 
but
I do find in my
experience that I have come across
women that did not think highly of themselves. But it's death it's very important to me that I I want people to know that I do not put a blanket statement on anyone who chooses that industry that they're all broken.
You know? But, yeah, it's it it it is a theme

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:21 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:32:25 
it is a theme as with maybe other. You know, if you're in the modeling industry or anything like that, I can only imagine how toxic that would be as well.

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:33 
Right.

Christine Macdonald  00:32:33 
Especially in the in the day of filters.
Right? And all of these...
You don't know what's real. And then these these young women
go on to
or or whatever. And they think, oh, my life, they they compare themselves to these unrealistic
expectations.
Right.

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:51 
Mhmm.
Yeah. You know what I think about, you know, I was a young journalist
at a young talent, really, you know, a television station with a bunch of young
young people.
And, you know,
to want to be on Tv.
I mean, I feel like it's it's definitely not a glamorous job may seem like it, but definitely is not.
But you know, when I looked all around me, there... You know, there are people who
are broken. I feel like... I mean, I'm that's like you said, I'm not saying everyone in. But they're they're they're trying to find their voice. And then I feel like that was kind of me. Like, people who had... Were we're not listened to. They'd got a job, so that people will listen to them Right? And I feel like I was... I was also that person as well. So I go, I tried to find my voice working in this business, but you know, obviously, that's that's not what's going to fix it. Right? You have to look within yourself

Christine Macdonald  00:33:22 
Mhmm.
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:46 
to be able to figure out why do I need this? What was I mis sing as a child

Christine Macdonald  00:33:49 
Yeah.
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:52 
in order for me
to pursue this this career, this lifestyle,
I think figuring out everyone's why, I think it's is important. You know, I feel like if we understood everyone's why there wouldn't be so much judgment.

Christine Macdonald  00:34:04 
You know,
Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Wouldn't it be great if everyone was, like, you have mandatory therapy from age twenty.

Lorilee Binstock  00:34:16 
Maybe younger.

Christine Macdonald  00:34:17 
Right.

Lorilee Binstock  00:34:18 
Maybe it's thirteen

Christine Macdonald  00:34:19 
Right.

Lorilee Binstock  00:34:19 
when you're teenager and there's hormones going and, yes.

Christine Macdonald  00:34:21 
Yeah. Yeah. I know. And then and, unfortunately, there's a lot of therapists out there that
they're not that great.
So by finding a therapist

Lorilee Binstock  00:34:29 
Yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:34:31 
that you can connect with that you have
that magical
chemist with is not easy. But once you find the right therapist, it really does help with that insight
and
Yeah. It's it's definitely an eye opener when you find out that
everything's connected, Like, everything's
connected. That's why I talk about in the book. I have I've had
the race when I was thirteen, I had the skin disease. There's father abandonment. They're drinking in the house and all of these things the bullying, the stripping everything's linked, you know?

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:03 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:35:04 
And so
now that I'm in my fifties,
I look through,
especially
the process of writing the book. I look through a different lens when I'm looking at that little girl, and I think, oh, of course, you ended up a stripper. And I'm not saying that to be... Do you know, I'm saying it to be self def. Like, what chance did I have? Like, of course, I'm gonna end up a distributor. But the the thing that I want people to focus on is not the fact that I was a cliche because I'm the first to say I'm a walking cliche. You know? But it's how I got out of it

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:19 
Yeah
Okay.
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:35:37 
because I have to say the women that I have reconnected with because it's very difficult to try and find
the girls that I used to work with because you can't do a Google search on candy. Right? You don't know their legal name.
Show
the women that I have reconnected with the the marvel of the Internet, which wasn't around back in our day, God I'm old.

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:59 
Yeah

Christine Macdonald  00:36:00 
They're... That they're lawyers.
Attorneys, There there are doctors, and and this is just, you know, they own their own businesses. I have a friend that's a makeup artist in Hollywood, all of these wonderful
women that have excel are it's just so nice to know that people have come out the other side and then, you know, there's other other people that are no longer with us and and all of those tragedies. But,
yeah it it can be an uplifting story. It doesn't have to be a dark cloud.

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:29 
Right. And, yours is a very very
inspiring story.

Christine Macdonald  00:36:34 
Thank you.

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:36 
Is there anything else that you would like to add?

Christine Macdonald  00:36:41 
Don't compare yourself. If there's any it... And if there's any advice that I would give. Now this goes for men too.

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:42 
Mhmm.

Christine Macdonald  00:36:47 
I will say,
especially when you're young and impression
passionately in this age of social media where
the attention span of people is probably, like, two seconds.

Lorilee Binstock  00:37:01 
It's tech.

Christine Macdonald  00:37:01 
Right. Everybody's
right, everybody, and I'm guilty of it as well all a sudden it's seven o'clock. And and it's midnight, I'm like, why have I been scrolling the whole time? But but the thing is it's... It's... We find ourselves

Lorilee Binstock  00:37:06 
Me too.

Christine Macdonald  00:37:14 
subconsciously
comparing
and I do this all the time, and I have to kinda check myself and say, no no no. Stay in your lane. And I don't remember who said this, but I'm gonna be boo and say, a quote,
comparison is that beef of joy. Comparison is the thief of joy. So if you really stop

Lorilee Binstock  00:37:30 
Yes.

Christine Macdonald  00:37:35 
comparing yourself with others,
focus on... On who you are, what you wanna accomplice, what your dreams are, who you are is person,
and just let your dreams guide you,
and
you'll end up okay. I think you'll be alright.
And no you're worth is not predicated on what anybody else thinks of you.
That took a long time for me. To understand.

Lorilee Binstock  00:37:59 
Yeah. I think I think finding self worth without, you know, with it's it's a it's a difficult

Christine Macdonald  00:37:59 
You know?

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:04 
thing to do. It's... I mean, it's taken me years and I'm still... I I I struggle, but I'm light years away from who I was,
you know,

Christine Macdonald  00:38:13 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:14 
up four years ago.

Christine Macdonald  00:38:16 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:18 
But, yeah, It's just finding it within yourself. And in that and

Christine Macdonald  00:38:20 
Yeah. And that's... Yeah. Yeah. It's all about the rewire. Right? You gotta rewire that brain
because we were... We were taught as children that we, you know, we didn't matter. We were invincible

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:26 
yep.

Christine Macdonald  00:38:33 
I was called work.

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:33 
You're just a kid.

Christine Macdonald  00:38:35 
Exactly.
Go in the other room, watch Tv.
I was told I was worthless. Almost every day. And so it's very difficult to rewire those
voices, but once you can get control of that,
you know, you're you're good. You're golden. Just say sit in your kid truth, stand in your power,
and don't compare yourself.

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:54 
Don't compare yourself that I think that that's key. That's key right there.

Christine Macdonald  00:38:58 
Mhmm.
And being a good human being. Be a good person.
You know?

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:02 
Yeah.

Christine Macdonald  00:39:03 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:03 
Yes.
A hundred percent. Thank you so much. Christine, I really appreciate you joining me today.

Christine Macdonald  00:39:10 
Oh, thank you. This is fun.

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:12 
I'm glad. I'm glad.
Well, that one's Christine Mcdonald's author of the Memoir face value from Stripper Pull to bearing my soul. For more information on Christine, click on that for scrolling fortune cookie right there in the middle of your screen, that will actually take you to her book. Also, Mark issue of authentic insider now Christine has contributed to that issue, and check out authentic take
thrive dot com. That's trauma survivor thrive dot com. You can find authentic insider there and past issues as well as episodes of this podcast.
If you haven't already, please subscribe to my email list to get authentic insider magazine in your inbox monthly.
Thank you so much for joining me live today. Show like next week, March fifteenth, when I speak with founder of the psychedelic Medicine coalition,
Melissa,
we will be discussing how psychedelics helped her heel from postpartum part depression and how that led her to create the Psychedelic menacing coalition.
You've been listening to a trauma survivor driver's podcast
on Fireside, I'm Lorilee Binstock thanks again for being a part of the conversation.
Take care.

Hypnotherapy to Heal Trauma

This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, March 1st, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat. 

Today’s guest is Laura Lynn Logan, Hypnotherapist, Energy Healer and Medical Intuitive.

Transcript:
Lorilee Binstock  00:00:37 
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and This is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Loyalty been.
Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting to hop on stage or sending a message in the chat
I will try to get to you, but I do ask everybody be respectful.
Today's guest is Laura Lynn. She is a therapist, energy healer and medical intuitive
Laura. Thank you so much for joining me. Are you joining me from Hawaii?

Laura Lynn  00:01:33 
Oh, hi, Lily. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. I am.

Lorilee Binstock  00:01:37 
Oh, aloha.

Laura Lynn  00:01:39 
I don't do you too.

Lorilee Binstock  00:01:41 
Thank you. Well, you know, there some like so many modalities
to healing trauma. And most of them are holistic and effective.
But him Therapy is one of those that I feel like it's gone under the radar, something that's also effective.
Can you kind of explain why you think that is?

Laura Lynn  00:02:00 
You know,
ever since I got into therapy,
it had been under the radar, like, even when it's portrayed in movies, like, I don't know if you seen get out
or
hypnotic on
get I think it's called black box of Amazon prime.

Lorilee Binstock  00:02:20 
Oh, and betty, have you have you seen betty?

Laura Lynn  00:02:22 
No. I haven't seen there. I not Have to go watch it.

Lorilee Binstock  00:02:25 
No. We'll we'll talk about that in a little bit.

Laura Lynn  00:02:28 
Okay.
But, yeah, you know, all of these movies betrayed
there hypnosis to be very bad,
and it's because of how powerful it is.
That you can heal yourself in this way that,
you know, it's it's even stronger than regular therapy and

Lorilee Binstock  00:02:46 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:02:46 
it just allows you to get
to
that root cause of why you feel the way you feel.
Get to them cause of the trauma that you've been carrying or your life. And
if I just wish a lot of people would know more about how powerful therapy is.

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:04 
You know, I I have a a podcast friend. She has a podcast healing
with Karen and, you know, it's a great podcast everyone should check it out. She talks about her own experience with Therapy. It is extremely
powerful.
And I think with the a a lot of modalities,
to heal trauma because you really have to, like,
kind of dive into the trauma.

Laura Lynn  00:03:27 
Thank you.

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:28 
And and I think that's a lot really scary. There is actually a a mean that I saw the other day. It was a person standing at the edge of a cliff. And it was someone flicking them off and it was like,

Laura Lynn  00:03:36 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:03:40 
and then at the bottom was someone catching them, and it was like, also I. So I feel like I could go the same way with him no therapy.
Like, you... It it will really knock you into oblivion until but it will also heal you you're you're willing and I think,
that can be the scary part of it.
I wanted to ask how did you get to hit because you had
you have your own experience with it as well.

Laura Lynn  00:04:06 
Yeah. It was quite a journey. So what really ignited all of this was a divorce.
I was
had my second son.
He was six weeks old when my husband at the time, wanted of the divorce,
actually had to go to my post part of appointment that morning. And
oh, gosh. It was just... It was... I just felt help with hopeless with.

Lorilee Binstock  00:04:25 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:04:30 
Anxiety came up and like, oh my gosh. Like, what am I gonna do? Like, this is all I know.
And
I kinda gave it up to God, and I decided to,
you know, give them what he wanted and do it in the most grateful way possible.
And slowly, but surely, like, little little things started coming in front of me,
and
that's when I became with my spiritual journey in my human journey
and it came across this woman who
did a human on me, and I read her bio, and she's like, oh, I'm a hit therapist. And
she went to the specific school. And so I looked it up, and they did like a free free
course
just see if you liked it and they did. And so that's how I actually started doing hit therapy and then
like, six months in, I went to another school
in Britain. So
I I got to learn two different styles, and I graduated
within a month apart from east school,
and it's been such an amazing
amazing journey of
Because in learning him a therapy, you also have to practice with other students,
And that's when a lot being started to unfold for me, and it was
very,
you know, this is amazing.

Lorilee Binstock  00:05:46 
What did the hit therapy
show you?

Laura Lynn  00:05:50 
Okay. Well, like, the first
the first time I ever spoke about my
childhood sexual of abuse,
I was about thirty four years old. This was was kind of like,

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:01 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:06:02 
of course, everything happened after,
you know, the
the divorce.
And I don't know if you ever heard of jean keys. It's sort of like,
you like, how
people do astrology and they look at needle charts.

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:16 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:06:17 
Well, it's just another way for you to learn more about yourself on deeper levels?
Like that with human design. So Jean Key is just another aspect of it,
and this guy did my reading,
and he looked at my childhood he was like,
suddenly happen to you.
And I just started ball because the first time like, someone brought it up, and I was like, yes. I was... I sexually abuse. And and

Lorilee Binstock  00:06:41 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:06:42 
from then,
it was just such relief you because having hold in under I'd had never told us soul
until that moment.
And now I went when I went to
School,
it's funny because
at first, you look at something things like confident.
And when you kind of, like, go down the rabbit of why you're not confident,
you don't you don't know what's gonna end up of what is connected to the root cause.

Lorilee Binstock  00:07:08 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:07:09 
And a lot of the... The service other things I was trying to shift or you
root cause
was my,
you know, experience
of sexual abuse and childhood.
And so,
you know, I also had to be vulnerable with these other students that I had I didn't know, like like... And they're were from all over the world, and and I kinda just surrendered because I was just tired of holding on to all this pain. And
so that's what of voted for me in majority of the hit Therapy sessions that I did with other students to get to
you know, wearing that today of being hit therapist myself.

Lorilee Binstock  00:07:47 
Wow. Wow. Yeah. I you know, it does take a lot to be vulnerable. And I think that is kind of the key
when doing doing any
trauma healing because if you're so
reluctant to to kind of
let yourself just be or or or
be in the experience.
It can... It can, you know, it it can be just hard and and you know...

Laura Lynn  00:08:12 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:16 
I I do want... So I I... I mentioned earlier betty. Like, you're saying that there's was a lot
where
have no therapy is
kind of portrayed in a very
negative way or negative light.

Laura Lynn  00:08:28 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:30 
And, Anybody, it's like it's actually a show
about
it's a doc. It's like a... I don't wanna say documentary. It's it's like a
telling of the Texas acts murderer,

Laura Lynn  00:08:44 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:08:44 
the woman who killed her best friend
and
she actually goes into
she she goes to a hint therapist.
Where she kind of discovered, like, there was a trigger that happened with her friend,
where it wasn't that she
wanted to
murder her friend, but there was a trigger
it was, like, something
a similar thing that are wondered that her mom did that was very triggering for her from her trial to trauma. Where she kind of blacked out and just

Laura Lynn  00:09:11 
Mhmm.
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:17 
she had max and, you know, what so and so happened.
So they knew that she she actually was a murderer, but they didn't know
they they... Their... The whole thing was, you know, was it prem
or whatever. So they actually brought the hit no therapist and

Laura Lynn  00:09:29 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:32 
And, obviously, a lot of people are like, oh, this no therapist.
It's... You know, it's woo stuff.

Laura Lynn  00:09:36 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:09:39 
But to me, I feel like it that legitimately is real. And actually, I think she's living
somewhere,
and she's actually, I I don't know practicing and therapist but she is some sort of therapist. I was looking her up. I like, this is very interesting.
How therapy can, like, really do that to you.
Could you actually talk about how does hit no therapy actually were?

Laura Lynn  00:10:01 
Yeah. So it's...
So we have our conscious mind and
you know, our subconscious is mine,
people don't really know too much about it, but it's like the most powerful of that you have, like, as your mind

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:12 
Mm-mm.

Laura Lynn  00:10:15 
everything that you've ever experienced
since you're born. And, you know, if you if you wanna get a little bit more deeper than this, but when hit the service
you know, you can also do past life work in chemotherapy.

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:27 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:10:30 
So because the conscious my... There's your self subconscious line. This is where we do work. But you can also access your super subconscious line
for the past life stuff.
But
any who
everything you ever experienced lifetime even when you're in your your mother's moon,

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:48 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:10:48 
like, the feeling she felt
things that you could hear as a baby,
like that affected you coming into this world. The experiences you've had affected you

Lorilee Binstock  00:10:58 
The energy I right, the energy that your mom may have

Laura Lynn  00:10:59 
to
Yeah. The energy Exactly.

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:03 
passed on

Laura Lynn  00:11:04 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:05 
Yeah. Go ahead. I I just... I... That was something that I had discovered as well.

Laura Lynn  00:11:06 
Oh yeah.
Okay. Awesome. Right. Because when I started discovery all these things is like, my kind of being blown. I was like, Oh, my god.

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:18 
Right.

Laura Lynn  00:11:18 
But then but then, again, not everybody's ready for this information.

Lorilee Binstock  00:11:22 
Exactly.

Laura Lynn  00:11:23 
So all we can do is is just, you know, honor people have their journey and hopefully, one day that they'll start resonating with this and, you know, get on their human training well.
But
back to what I was saying,
it's like, especially when we go through things that are very traumatic,
there's parts within us that hold onto that for us so that we can somewhat
live normal lives and society. Right?
Like, a lot of my experiences is
kinda of like
skeletons in the closet in the sense that's similar to
hiding things in our subconscious mind.
But,
you know like, how you said about Betty, like, she was triggered. And now when we get triggered by certain things that we've already experienced,

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:06 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:12:10 
if these parts with dinners that are trying to protect us, so she got triggered.
This part came through was like, no. I don't wanna experience this again. So she protected her, even though it was very... Bad had act that she did, but

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:23 
Right.

Laura Lynn  00:12:24 
you know, a lot of these times,
it's just these parts that are trying to protect this from, you know, experiencing that painful
you know, emotion experience again.
So
the some subconscious might it's powerful and a lot of the times,
our behaviors our living beliefs are in there. So if you're able to get into so subconscious as my reprogram,
you know, the whatever
beliefs you have then and there's a lot of the times, from each zero, the seven is where we're just engaging all this information.

Lorilee Binstock  00:12:58 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:12:58 
It's like,
where our subconscious might really open to season because we we come to this world, we'll let know what's happening so we're just in taking
everything. So some of your family,
your... You know, your friends going to school just watch you and use
those become your beliefs on how your... You how you think you're supposed to live.
And
As reason why, sometimes people
like, what this is just the way I am,

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:26 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:13:27 
but that's not the case can always change.
You are, if you wanna better yourself, if you wanna hear that pain, if you wanna shift your behaviors,
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:38 
Yeah. I...
It's it's it's when you... When you talk about
you know,
like you were saying about,
you know, even in the womb,
you will you can you feel like the energy you feel like, for me, it was
very much... You know, I'm was kind of an accident accident.

Laura Lynn  00:13:58 
Mhmm

Lorilee Binstock  00:13:58 
I wasn't that. You know? And like my parents actually talk about they did when I was younger about being an accident constantly.

Laura Lynn  00:14:00 
Mhmm.
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:07 
And so I felt that energy as a bit as they infant, obviously, I can't take in
that the language of what they're saying, but I can feel.
You know, I was able to feel that energy and felt unwanted and felt unworthy.

Laura Lynn  00:14:18 
Mhmm.
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:23 
And, you know, that kind of how I grew up You know, it's it's literally taken me, you know, in thirty nine now,

Laura Lynn  00:14:29 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:31 
I didn't find
healing until
several years ago,

Laura Lynn  00:14:35 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:35 
and I didn't... And I so I've been feeling unworthy for just the majority of my life. Right? And so I'm, you know, it's just taking that that that healing.

Laura Lynn  00:14:40 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:44 
But it's there isn't very true that if, you know, the
when
during hit therapy,
it can access. Like, you said your subconscious mind, things that you don't even realize
what was there,

Laura Lynn  00:14:59 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:14:59 
like,
like, I guess, things that you could've have blacked out because it was too traumatic at the time.

Laura Lynn  00:15:05 
Yes. That is so true. So what am I experiences?
One of these guys he he offered... Is he's a coach. She offered me a free session
because he was living on another island in Hawaii, so was kinda of like, oh, you're from way to. Oh, let's get it together and I give you a free sense. I'm like oh, thank you.
And

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:25 
It's amazing.

Laura Lynn  00:15:26 
Yeah. He was leaving a service, but
because I've been doing this for a while, like, I'm able to like, drop into my self subconscious mind and access things.

Lorilee Binstock  00:15:36 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:15:37 
And so as he was taking me through this exercise,
we went to a place where where it was like, this skeleton closet it, like I ended up
in front of a door,
and I had a key
and
I was the only person that was able to open the store, and it was my choice open the door.
And behind that was like, all the parts of me that had
experienced being sexually abused.
It's like, every time that happened, like a part,

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:05 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:16:07 
like, fractured off

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:09 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:16:09 
and, like, was put in the closet, like, no. I don't wanna see this
you don't exist.

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:16 
Nice.

Laura Lynn  00:16:17 
And so I was like, you know what? We're going in closet because

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:20 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:16:22 
I'm not gonna, like,
like, when I want my healing journey, like, I'm just going like, as fast as I can go, like, I'm healing whatever I can heal.

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:30 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:16:31 
Bring it on
So I went in there and as I opened the door, it's like, I felt all of this like, immense energy of, like,
all of the experiences that they were holding on to for me. Right? These are all, like, my inner children

Lorilee Binstock  00:16:48 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:16:48 
that had fractured off because they experience it and the guys put in the closet.
And so with that,
because I was also doing energy healing, like, I went to the center of the road.
And then I called upon, you know, god my universe creator or whatever you believe?
And my angels,
and we just, like,
like, a light came down,
like, through me and through my heart,
expanded out to all the hearts of all these little children that were in that room. So I could heal them.
And it was sergeant Credit Luke's experience, and
and then they went from that room to a playground, like, and just play with each other. So

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:26 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:17:29 
so that that was that experience. And he was like, wow. You know, I've done this with so many other people and
like that happens so fast. Usually, people don't even go in the closet, and it would take them like,
many sessions for them to even, like, walk through that door.
Like, Yeah. I'm kinda dedicated to to myself right now.

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:48 
Mhmm

Laura Lynn  00:17:49 
And like my viewing journey, so if you can bring it up and we can face it and he it, And that's what I'm gonna do.

Lorilee Binstock  00:17:56 
Well,
you know, what
you talking about that kind of room... You know, these parts. You know, I I'm in
internal family systems therapy.

Laura Lynn  00:18:05 
Okay. Nice.

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:06 
And we talk about a lot of parts
and the parts that are fractured and the parts that are broken off the fart that I need to that

Laura Lynn  00:18:08 
Yes.
Here

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:13 
individually need healing.

Laura Lynn  00:18:14 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:15 
I love that. Because I I feel like that... I I... You know, I feel like all trauma healing really. It it's really focused on different parts and accessing your your subconscious
whether be through bitmap therapy. I've also, I don't know if if you're aware, but I've done a lot not a lot, but I have done
several sessions of psychedelic
healing.

Laura Lynn  00:18:38 
Oh,

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:39 
And it... And it's it's it's like that. I feel like when you're sick talking about, like,

Laura Lynn  00:18:39 
nice.

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:44 
imagining the store, imagining
you know, I can open this. And if I open this, with it's gonna be back there, and it's it's all of these things all of the skeletons.

Laura Lynn  00:18:50 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:18:55 
That are there that you can just,
you know, you're were like, that's what I need to heal. That's what I need to heal.
I think I I think for no therapy, you you really have to want to to access that stuff.

Laura Lynn  00:19:10 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:10 
Like I said, with my friend and Karen, she...
It's really interesting listening to her because it did get a little intense. There were times where we're was so attention hat. She was, like, I can't do this right? Now I need to take a break from it

Laura Lynn  00:19:21 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:23 
because you're really, really accessing to some real real trauma that you've experienced your kind have have to experience it again. And I think that that can be really, really tough.

Laura Lynn  00:19:27 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:36 
You are also an energy healer.

Laura Lynn  00:19:39 
Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:19:41 
Can you talk a little bit about that? And how does that work together with hit therapy.

Laura Lynn  00:19:47 
Yeah. So
it was funny because I going through that school and britain.
They
similarly
like, said words
that would like, move energy, but they weren't doing, like, to them. It was just we're seeing words to move to this emotions out, but they're actually doing hip... I mean, energy hearing so it was kind funny bet. I was like, these people don't even know they're doing,
but
because there's they're keeping it more on the practical side.
Of chemotherapy. Right?
A lot of people can believe that more than energy killing.

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:23 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:20:25 
But
Yes. So I went through another school.
Her name was Chris Hughes. And
what's what's funny is that she went to the same hip therapy that I went to... Which was the first one that I told you that I came across of. Like, she went to the exact same school.

Lorilee Binstock  00:20:40 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:20:42 
And she's also energy. So she created
this
this little dolly called integrated full technology.
Which
kind of brings the best of both worlds of
and energy healing and it's similar to the parts healing like,
for for that modality, will, like, connect with the part that needs to be shift.
And we'll pull that part out,
and then
from there, we'll do the the energy shooting part. So it's like
part hit therapy, part energy healing, bringing it together visible
mess both world,
and
really just
you know, bringing those fracture parts of your soul
to back to wholeness.

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:29 
Do... Is is the energy healing that you do is that similar to, like, Frankie?

Laura Lynn  00:21:35 
Similar. Yes. It it's in the same room with energy healing. There's so many different modalities out there. It's quite amazing.
And
yeah. So so, yes, It is similar to
to Ricky.
Or I know Ricky is really

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:49 
For you.

Laura Lynn  00:21:51 
popular with when it comes to energy human mean.

Lorilee Binstock  00:21:54 
What so what are some of things that you do, like, for example?

Laura Lynn  00:22:01 
Well, so I've also taken, like,
a medical going intuitive, of course.

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:06 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:22:06 
So I'm able to connect with people higher self
and sort of
kind of bring my guys in there guides.
I work with
Raphael. He's, you know, the angel of the the healer,
and
you know, we kinda look at the body and see, like, okay. What is the most important thing that I needs to be worth on right now? Because there's so things going on with the body you can't you, everything it wander up because that's a lot of...
That's a lot for a a person
to handle right unless we've been in
like, the realm of energy healing,
and they've done a lot and just human work.

Lorilee Binstock  00:22:42 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:22:44 
It's like,
kind of baby stepping people
through healing processes,
whether there's therapy or energy human.
But but, you know, that's just one thing that I do. I kinda do a lot of different things so what I tapped into is spiritual realm and energy human, I just like,
one everywhere.

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:07 
I mean, I feel like I did... I did a little rocky work

Laura Lynn  00:23:11 
Awesome.

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:11 
someone I would... When I...
Typically, before... You know, I started my period around that time of the month, and my hormones, and my energy is just

Laura Lynn  00:23:17 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:20 
off the charts. Like, I
I I I struggle with prem
work disorder, which is like, a... It's it's not Pm, but it's like it Pm,
and it could be a little bit more serious. You know,
to be honest, Like, whenever I was dealing with my trauma,
I've had since to a, you know, trigger warning. I had a lot of suicidal, and mean it was typically before my period.

Laura Lynn  00:23:47 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:47 
And I think there... There's also a connection there with my trauma. I'm also a childhood text abuse survivor.
And so there there's trauma there that I'm working with
my my internal family system's therapist.

Laura Lynn  00:23:58 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:23:59 
But before
about the week or two before I would
have an energy or a an
practitioner
come to my house and and work with my energy because I feel like I hold a lot of negative energy.

Laura Lynn  00:24:14 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:14 
Around
around that time in the month. And so
it it was really, really helpful.
I I feel like you can feel immediately
like a relief.

Laura Lynn  00:24:26 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:24:27 
And and so, yeah. And
and you... You know, you mentioned medical intuitive. Could you could you
elaborate on what is a medical intuitive?

Laura Lynn  00:24:36 
Yeah.
It's really just happening into your tuition and helping people
to
energetically move the densities in their body.
Wherever it is, what it could be you know, the mind, the heart,
you know, the womb,
and but it's more of like just being a conduit for, you know, a spirit who works through you as as you're doing this work. Like, like, I just move my hands like I can do this remotely.
With, you know, so in across the world, and then,
like, they just leave me
to to do what needs to be done in, like, removing those energies, bringing you high vibration energy in
to help you
whatever you needs to be here at that moment in time.

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:23 
Well, So you can actually
work with even though they're not with you, and you like, you can you feel their energy
from across the world.

Laura Lynn  00:25:33 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:25:33 
Wow.

Laura Lynn  00:25:35 
Yeah. And it's it's really, like, connecting in with with their higher self for what and my higher self are like, okay. Tell me what this person means right now.
You know, we all have... It's like, when we're feeling there's layers of healing,
even when we do therapy, there's deeper layers to go through.
But as you go through each layer, it just helps
that much more like for me.
I had.
And so,
like... And
and I can distinctly remember when this came to my life and why

Lorilee Binstock  00:26:10 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:26:11 
because my husband that that I divorced them with my two kids.
Before we had our kids,
he cheated on me, I attracted a lot of teachers in my life.

Lorilee Binstock  00:26:21 
Mhmm

Laura Lynn  00:26:22 
My dad was a shooters. So if you kinda look at your childhood,
you'll will see you the patterns of the partners that you attract.

Lorilee Binstock  00:26:28 
Right.
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:26:29 
And
a lot of it also was tutors and abandonment.
So any who he cheated on me and I have this I had this habit because I also felt unworthy
of taking them back. Know what I mean, instead of making those boundaries,
and loving myself. Like, I deserved me treated like this. I would take them back.

Lorilee Binstock  00:26:50 
Right.

Laura Lynn  00:26:52 
And then my bible was like,
you know what Laura?
You're not learning your message. So we're gonna,
like, the body of the warning system. So we're going to
you know, manifest this element for you to help you to recognize,
like, what's happening. And, of course, if you're not aware that, then you're not able to get to the Root con why that's happening?
So I wasn't dealing with that for
four years. Every time I have my period, it was as your painful experience, I would have blood and mucus come out of my school during my period.
So the only times

Lorilee Binstock  00:27:27 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:27:29 
that that was done was when I was pregnant because I will have my period. But as soon as the bank came out right back to the same pattern,

Lorilee Binstock  00:27:36 
Join.

Laura Lynn  00:27:37 
once I got into this energy healing and this chemotherapy because on top of my childhood trauma, I had to heal all of the pain that I went through on my relationships.
And
slowly, but surely, like, it got better,
and I'm pregnant know.

Lorilee Binstock  00:27:54 
Oh, wow. Congratulations.

Laura Lynn  00:27:55 
Thank you. Thank you. But before I... Like, before I, you know, was pregnant like, like, I stopped having those issues like, it stops being painful.
And and and that's what it happens, like, when they're in deep trauma, like, there's gonna be so many ways to kind of like, remove.
But as you're going through it, and you're removing it, you're getting better as time moves for it. I mean, it's not gonna happen overnight, especially if it's something deep like that.
But just know it it is gaining better over time. You gotta just keep on moving forward and kinda choosing you choosing to heal these parts of you that been holding on others this pain for you.

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:37 
You know, that's really
interesting. I've had... I've had other energy here he on the show, and they talk a lot about
and for them too,
you know, they have
autoimmune diseases.

Laura Lynn  00:28:50 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:51 
That,
you know,
modern day medicine was just not working, and then they were able to heal this energy.

Laura Lynn  00:28:56 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:28:59 
And
I don't know if necessarily what what they would they were dealing with, whenever autoimmune disease went away.

Laura Lynn  00:29:08 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:09 
But it was either manageable without medication,
but it's it's it's just this this
energy, I guess, they... That that they are trying to to heal. It's like you said the body that's telling you
Okay. Something's things wrong with what's going on. And so we'll just... And we'll just tell you what to... Well we're just gonna have to give you a warning sign.

Laura Lynn  00:29:28 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:29:33 
Can hit no therapy actually break into that.
Like,

Laura Lynn  00:29:38 
Yes. Definitely.
You can, you know, get into subconscious mind and kinda talk to that part of your body.
That's holding onto to that element,
and kinda be like, okay. Why? Like, why is it here?
And kinda really digging deep into the root cause of that. And then,
you know, a lot of the times, it's just the acknowledgement me. Right? It's it's like, okay.
Laura has taking the time to figure out why isn't happening,
and and then, of course,
helping those parts to release that pain to release why they're holding on to and also receiving the messages
and the lessons and the blessings of why that's happening right? Because

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:15 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:30:18 
Again, all these parts are trying to protect us,
and they you know, they wanna
they want us to lead better lives and they're
you know? So they're really there to to help you because, you know,
for me with my
having those painful periods every month like, it was just excruciating. Like, I felt like all was being and stabbed,

Lorilee Binstock  00:30:43 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:30:43 
very sharp pain.
And it was, you know, me to me needing to honor my own self and to stop
allowing men to you know, treat me that way. Like, I was nothing.
And when I kinda took my power back, that's when you're started healing.

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:01 
Yeah. I'm I'm... I'm just wondering like if.
You know, if someone who's dealing with, like, stress induced, you know, ailments,
which I feel like a first, like, many autoimmune diseases. It's it it's they're really spurred on by stress,
and being able
the awareness of the stress, which I think is amazing that have no therapy can actually
kind of crack that open.

Laura Lynn  00:31:26 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:31:28 
That you can actually really start healing not not just mentally, but physically, and I and I think there's there's this
huge importance of
this connection to your mental and physical state. Like, it's... Like, I feel like maybe now, I don't even know how maybe it's just in my circle because I, you know, my circle of
people who I know and I hear you know, it's it's all about healing mentally, but it's like there's this...
There's a absolutely... There's this connection
and I think we need to learn how to be it to integrate it all in our healing and in in the medical world than the medical field. I feel like
it's it's... There's very a lot of focus on physical,
and we we're not getting to the root of it all.

Laura Lynn  00:32:15 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:16 
And and it's really a pain because it's like, oh, insurance will take take care of, you know,
cynical ailments much more easily, than it would take care of any mental ailments when
when they really really go together.

Laura Lynn  00:32:31 
Yeah.
Yeah. That's true. I mean,
there's definitely
a connection you know with your mind physical body, and it's kind of like, for example,
when I have my So both my children were c sessions, emergency Cc sections.
And with my first one, like, I was walking around the house, like,

Lorilee Binstock  00:32:45 
Yeah.

Laura Lynn  00:32:50 
homestead over
for, like, two weeks just
like I was in pain,
and
and so
my second one, I was like, I refused to be like that again, so I kinda told myself I told them I know I was like, I was like, I'm healing. And and this was before, even like, got into therapy energy human,
I was just telling myself
that this is what it was gonna be. So when I'm in the hospital,

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:15 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:33:18 
like, After I have my section very next day, I was up and I was walking.
So it really is, like, the words that you tell yourself, and that's why we have to also watch like

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:23 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:33:29 
self talk. Right? Is it more positive or isn't it negative?

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:31 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:33:33 
And a lot of the time with therapy,
I've done so much work that like, my, like,
native self talk like is not even there because all these parts I've shifted

Lorilee Binstock  00:33:43 
Wow.

Laura Lynn  00:33:45 
And so all these parts are there to support me and, you know, and whatever I I wanna do in life and giving me encouragement
instead of kinda being, like who are you
and, you know, whatever they yourself taught it,
that anyone has,
but that's why it's important to to do chemotherapy to learn about the some subconscious mind, the power of my, the part of you choosing
to decide that Okay. I don't wanna have this yourself talk. I'm going to
like, a native
comment comes through or that comes through and you like, know I don't accept that. I'm shifting that.
And the more you do that,
you know, again, over time because you been programmed this way for so long.
Whether it's people projecting of their own
worries onto you and you believe in that stuff,
And
until you just taking control back of your own
mind, your own life and really choosing what you wanna do for yourself.

Lorilee Binstock  00:34:46 
That is really interesting because now that I think about it, I I mean, I I used to be a bit, like big on negative self. Talk. I saw I don't know what why. And I now that I'm thinking about as you are actually saying those words done. I don't really know if I talk to myself that negatively
anymore.
Like, it was just like, in every single day, like,

Laura Lynn  00:35:03 
Nice.

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:06 
this is very
self
just...

Laura Lynn  00:35:11 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:11 
Like... And now that I'm thinking about I'm, like, I I don't feel like I talk to myself in a negative way.
Anymore.
And I wow. You know, I... That was just like a realization. I'm like, oh, ding ding think that actually

Laura Lynn  00:35:23 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:24 
it it actually works when you shift and

Laura Lynn  00:35:27 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:28 
because I do feel like my life is so much more different than it was, you know,
four or, five years ago because I feel like or maybe four years ago, thirty years ago, It was in twenty twenty when I actually started

Laura Lynn  00:35:38 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:41 
like, healing.
Prior to that, I was... Yeah. And so so recent.

Laura Lynn  00:35:42 
Oh nice.
No. Mine was the same. Like, in twenty nineteen is what I on audience is when I had my son. So in September, he asked the divorce and Since then and I've been on the Hearing journey. So in twenty twenty, he actually divorced.

Lorilee Binstock  00:35:55 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:35:59 
In June. So that's when that was like,
like, full speed ahead.

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:03 
Then you're like, I all I have... All I have to do is heal.
Like, all I wanna do is heal, it's like you've been through
the the hard stuff and and healing can be hard. You know? It... You know, it's like I said, like, that that means that I said it was it's like, kicking you off of

Laura Lynn  00:36:13 
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:19 
a cliff, but then also catching you also the same time, but it's that that in between that you have to go through that fear of, like, falling

Laura Lynn  00:36:26 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:28 
before you get to that that place where you're safe.
And so
I think... And and, you know, I feel like that's that's...
Oh
how it it it is and a lot of people
really are reluctant to heal

Laura Lynn  00:36:43 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:44 
because they there the there's the fear that they have to go through that fall, and that there's no one to catch them or there's nothing to catch them, but but the it can happen. It's it's there.

Laura Lynn  00:36:56 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:36:57 
Is there anything that you would like to add?

Laura Lynn  00:37:02 
You know, I would just like to say,
you know, for people to really
kind of look at themselves, do a lot of self
and kind of see like, am I happy wearing in that am I happy
with what I'm doing with my life, and what am I happy with myself in how I'm being in how I behave
and kinda start and making those decisions to
shift those things that you don't wanna be anymore into
what you do wanna be and what you do wanna do and
just really follow your heart your heart and
like your compass.
And because I know, you know, with a mind, you know, there's a lot of chatter sometimes. I remember when I first started,
like,
like so much.
According on in my mind. I was like, I thought it was supposed to be required.

Lorilee Binstock  00:37:51 
Mhmm.
Yep.

Laura Lynn  00:37:55 
And then, of course, you know, if you you learn a lot...
Along the way, like, now, I know how to meditate very well, but
it's like,
really just
choosing what you want for yourself and knowing that
you can
you can change
anything you want about yourself.
And, you know, and it'll it'll take time because shifting behaviors

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:13 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:38:18 
like, you can do it
like,
you can start to read reprogram yourself, like, on the service level, but hit therapy gets down on a deep level of changing behaviors and
and healing.
But, you know,
kinda like,
when you wake up in the morning right before you go to sleep, those of the most times that you're are
more open to suggestions.
So kinda right before you go sleep kinda just tell yourself,

Lorilee Binstock  00:38:42 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:38:46 
you know,
the things I that you wanna do or be or even affirmations, like, I affirmations are super powerful.
So show you right before you go sleep,
and
and then as soon need you wake up and kinda just
also, like,
really get to
learn more about yourself. Like, it's so important to focus on you, like,

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:09 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:39:12 
when I was going through,
you know, I noticed my pattern of men, like, there'll be someone leaning in the wings and I would just go right to the next one,
Never spending in any time on myself, never healing anything. And and so after my divorce like, something's gotta it change. And so I just street. So you show myself, focus on my healing,

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:26 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:39:34 
and I was like the happiest I've ever been. My extra come over to pick the boys and them because I, thank you for divorce me because

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:42 
Yes.

Laura Lynn  00:39:43 
because I would not be wearing,
like, emotionally
spiritually
like, if you didn't
initiate that because I wasn't going to... I would never leave somebody. And that's the reason why like, I didn't.

Lorilee Binstock  00:39:53 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:39:57 
Throughout my relationships. I didn't honor myself. I... I didn't feel like I little the worthy of myself.
And so learning to love yourself is a emotions important thing, like,
when you fill a your cut first,

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:10 
Right.

Laura Lynn  00:40:11 
then everyone can get the overflow. But if you're trying to keep on forgetting, you're eventually gonna end up with nothing in your cup and you're still gonna try to give, but then you have nothing to give.

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:17 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:40:21 
So

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:21 
Right.

Laura Lynn  00:40:22 
you need to just give to yourself, learn more about yourself who you are. You know, a lot of a lot of people don't know a lot of people wanna know what their purpose in life.
That's something that
that happens through self discovery.
Like people can't just,
you know, people can give you hint like, as as I was going through my healing journey. I didn't know I was gonna be a healer and her ridiculous like, what is that?

Lorilee Binstock  00:40:48 
Yeah.

Laura Lynn  00:40:49 
Or the therapist?
What I didn't know that existed.
And as I was dedicated to myself, all of these pieces of a puzzle kept coming right in front of me,
and then and then when I was like, oh,
this is what I do. This is what I love. This is my passion. I'm here to help people.

Lorilee Binstock  00:41:07 
Wow.

Laura Lynn  00:41:08 
So it's really just focusing on you if, you know, especially if you're trying to find out, like, what am I here to do or
just loving yourself more.
Allows you to raise your vibration,
when you range your vibration,
and you started attracting
people situations experiences on different levels, and

Lorilee Binstock  00:41:24 
Yes.

Laura Lynn  00:41:28 
and sometimes as equal go through this journey, like,
people are gonna fall off people that
you have been associated with because they're gonna be able to level that barrett, unless they're gonna do their human too.
But it's okay. Like, don't hold yourself back
because you wanna stay with these people like, you came to this earth for your soul evolution.

Lorilee Binstock  00:41:47 
Right.

Laura Lynn  00:41:51 
Not for, like, like, yeah, you're here to help people too, but not to
place small, keep yourself
down
just because
you're scared to go by yourself. Sometimes you have to go through the door by yourself, just show people the way, and then they can go through their own own or by seeing
like, what's happening with you?
So I've noticed like,
a lot of you around me, My family members, like, they got exposed to
what I'm doing because,
you know, I'm doing the healing the Therapy energy human and you're like, oh, wow.
Laura is a whole different person.

Lorilee Binstock  00:42:27 
Yeah

Laura Lynn  00:42:28 
Like, seriously... And it is old crazy. I like, I can't believe a person that wants.

Lorilee Binstock  00:42:34 
Right.

Laura Lynn  00:42:34 
But But, you know, it's so because that was like, what I had to heal when I had to learn what I had to grow from. And he evolved from, but people can see the shifted to me, and then it... It's in... Like, it's a it's like a c that's put in their mind like, oh,
And so when they're ready, then they can come and ask me like, okay. So how do I do this? How do I how do I be better? How do I make better choices? Because a lot of times, we get triggered
and we go back into these old habits.
I used to be a very jealous person, very insecure because I didn't know my old worth.

Lorilee Binstock  00:43:10 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:43:10 
And now it's like, it doesn't any exist because I love myself.

Lorilee Binstock  00:43:14 
No. Yes.

Laura Lynn  00:43:15 
So So it's like, really just working on yourself makes everything better.

Lorilee Binstock  00:43:20 
It does.

Laura Lynn  00:43:21 
So just learning to love yourself that's the the most important and, like,
in life period.

Lorilee Binstock  00:43:29 
I'd love to end on that last note, but I have one more question.
Do you believe that hit therapy is for everyone?

Laura Lynn  00:43:38 
Well
I believe it's for everyone who's ready.

Lorilee Binstock  00:43:43 
Ready. Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:43:44 
Yeah. Because
like, you are going to
dive deep into
these experiences. Are you been holding on to granted?
Like, I've been too many different types of hidden therapist.
And
was the one I told you was integrated so technology, you just pull up the part that's been holding onto to the pain,
and you figure out what the emotions are, you know, where the roots stem from.
And the belief that they're holding on to and kind of. Okay. So so
instead of these things, what do you wanna believe now?
What what energies do you wanna bring you know? And how do you want this part to support you know? Once it's fully killed?
And then you bring something... You know, then that's another part on your team.
But
I've also,
you know, had an experience with someone where I I did hit the Therapy
on me
and
she was taking me through the actual experience I I was like, I was like, this is not good at all. I was like...
How was like, no.
But granted lucky, like, I've I've been through
like, those two different types of Therapy, energy.
Like, I was strong enough to experience that. But that in it for everyone like, that kinda just

Lorilee Binstock  00:44:57 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:44:59 
traumatized people

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:00 
Yeah.

Laura Lynn  00:45:01 
so it's kind of like,

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:01 
Yeah.

Laura Lynn  00:45:03 
but people don't need to go through that. But they just need to heal the part that's connecting
the emotions
to the event.
And kinda releasing those emotions,
so that event isn't triggering anymore.
But, yeah, so it just depends on if a person is ready and
kind of, you know, who they see because there's different types of
chemotherapy that people can do, like, internal family systems

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:29 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:45:29 
or the the iced
or

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:33 
Oh, still internal family system therapy considered a type of
therapy.

Laura Lynn  00:45:38 
To me, I feel like it is because it's talking to the parts.
Of of you,
which these parts are all in your self subconscious line.

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:46 
Interesting.
Well, I didn't even think about that. You're right because I do. I, like, you know, Like I... It's like I go in,

Laura Lynn  00:45:55 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:55 
you know, we turn inward

Laura Lynn  00:45:57 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:45:57 
And then I do
witness these experiences from the root of the feeling that I'm concerned about.

Laura Lynn  00:46:03 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:46:04 
So that... You you know, I did... I've never really thought about that.
I'm just like, oh, internal family systems. Oh, you know, hit therapy.
But that
that makes sense
in saying that. But go ahead. I'm sorry.

Laura Lynn  00:46:17 
Oh, no. Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:46:19 
Yeah.

Laura Lynn  00:46:20 
But, yeah,
I I I really think that for people to
get deeper
deeper human,
especially if they have a lot of trauma because there... You know, there's different levels of trauma. Right?
Like, a trauma could be, you know, a divorce or Term could be... Like, what we experience with sexual abuse and childhood.

Lorilee Binstock  00:46:41 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:46:41 
But
you know, to get
some really deep hearing then, yes. I believe that
people should do therapy

Lorilee Binstock  00:46:51 
Yeah.

Laura Lynn  00:46:51 
Yes.
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:46:52 
Oh, well, is is there do you
prepare for? Or you just dive right into it?

Laura Lynn  00:47:02 
Usually, I... Will, when I do it on myself, I dive right into it.
But with other people it just depends on, like,
like, what they're healing.

Lorilee Binstock  00:47:12 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:47:12 
So, for example,
someone came to me for anger,
like, I'm angry all the time. And like, okay. Like my let's let's work to find the root positive anger,
and they told to find out there's anger,
what he also experienced
sexual
sexual abuse as a child in the same situation that I was in because of being the like growing up in a drug.

Lorilee Binstock  00:47:36 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:47:36 
So
so we can hold, you know,
all these things expressions themselves in different ways.
And, like, his
expressed in anger, and that's what the root collins was for him.
So...
Yeah, it's it's just
really
depend on
I don't what need to be healed. You know?

Lorilee Binstock  00:47:59 
Right. That makes sense. You know, there was a point where I like, everyone should try psychedelic dogs because I found my healing
like, the root of, like, my healing through psychedelic psychedelics I was like everyone should try it and then it was, like, wait a minute.
Maybe not

Laura Lynn  00:48:13 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:48:14 
may... Not not everyone may... Will be so open to really diving head first into... The, like the darkened places of your soul.

Laura Lynn  00:48:20 
Yeah.
Yes. Like me I'm down, like, yes, and go there. You're like, that's where I wanna go.

Lorilee Binstock  00:48:27 
Yes.
See that's where I am. Exactly. Like, I'm not And you know, they mean... They talk about, like,
bad trips and and really, bad trips are literally just traveling to the darkest places of your soul.

Laura Lynn  00:48:35 
Mhmm.
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:48:40 
And but from from there, that's when you find
you find the healings, the deep deep appealing, all the stuff that's just been

Laura Lynn  00:48:46 
Yes.
Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:48:50 
affecting you,
not even knowing it. Right?

Laura Lynn  00:48:53 
Yes.
Exactly. Like, you... Like, a lot of times, we're, you know, the way we act what we get triggered from, we don't know where these things stem from.

Lorilee Binstock  00:49:00 
Exactly.

Laura Lynn  00:49:01 
And a lot of people like, I don't know why I don't... Like, people were depressed, I no lying this way. I don't know I feel this with. That's because it's, like,
trapped year so conscious mine and it's like, I don't know if this person's ready
to, like,
be aware of what actually happened to them. In there, you know, for whatever I experience it has. But...

Lorilee Binstock  00:49:19 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:49:22 
But, yeah. Like, I I went... I did like, a
I don't know if you know Wim, he he he's about breathing. So I went to a wim,

Lorilee Binstock  00:49:27 
Yes.

Laura Lynn  00:49:31 
like workshop.
Breathing and
and ice bath. My first time, never done your breathing exercises and one guide, like,

Lorilee Binstock  00:49:36 
Yes.

Laura Lynn  00:49:40 
he like, went so deep that he was fighting like Demons within himself in the sense so he got up from the the breath meditation. It was swinging,
like, he was just fighting something and he was, like, unconscious,

Lorilee Binstock  00:49:51 
Oh, my goodness.

Laura Lynn  00:49:54 
and you would like traveling over people, so we kinda had a spout the circle.
But
and he just left like he... You know, but that's what happens when people aren't ready to
face their their demons. You know, I mean face that darkness?
So it it's kinda

Lorilee Binstock  00:50:10 
Yeah.

Laura Lynn  00:50:11 
you kinda gotta take it in steps
and kinda like, know your limits, but
kinda like, I you it. Oh, take me there. I'm like, you take me their too.

Lorilee Binstock  00:50:20 
Yes.
Yes. That's and I'm like, I can't go through anything worse than what I've been through.

Laura Lynn  00:50:26 
Right. Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:50:26 
I now is... There's only one way to just kill and it's having to

Laura Lynn  00:50:29 
Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:50:31 
dive deep.

Laura Lynn  00:50:33 
Yes. I love that. I have not trying sag Bell. So, like, which one specifically,

Lorilee Binstock  00:50:33 
So... Yeah.

Laura Lynn  00:50:38 
like,
you know, helped you the most.

Lorilee Binstock  00:50:41 
Well, I started with Md.
And
the the reason why is
because
it it kind of shuts off the fear
the fear
part of your brain, the fear and anxiety of your brain. So you're actually able to see all of these really horrible experiences.

Laura Lynn  00:50:57 
Mhmm.
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:51:02 
In a very compassionate way. And so for me, it was, you know, I was sexually abused by my biological father, so I was... It was really hard for me to go through that. And

Laura Lynn  00:51:09 
Mhmm
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:51:13 
I'm not saying I for... I don't wanna say forgive because there's so many ways to forgive or... But I... We had a better understanding because in my own experience, I was able
to see his childhood.

Laura Lynn  00:51:26 
Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:51:26 
So in so I saw his childhood and I saw

Laura Lynn  00:51:27 
Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:51:30 
his abuse.

Laura Lynn  00:51:31 
Mhmm. Yep.

Lorilee Binstock  00:51:31 
And I wasn't in angry anymore. I felt... Like, I I felt compassion. I was like, oh my god. She didn't know better. This is all he knew.

Laura Lynn  00:51:39 
Exactly yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:51:39 
Whereas before that, I was just like, oh, god. He she should have known better. He was an adult, but that's not the sense. That's not reality. And so

Laura Lynn  00:51:43 
Yes yes.
Mhmm

Lorilee Binstock  00:51:49 
after that session,
I let go of so much anger,

Laura Lynn  00:51:53 
Oh, that's good.

Lorilee Binstock  00:51:54 
like, the anger like I'm am not as angry.
As I want what, like, little things would set me off. So...

Laura Lynn  00:52:00 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:52:01 
So then I took this step up to
psilocybin which the magic mushrooms
and there, I experienced a whole host of it
emotions. Like, I I literally went through
the cycle of all the trapped emotions that I had in my
my system,
and I cried and I laughed, and I I I mean, my it was probably like, whoa. I'm sure they see all kinds of stuff, but I was just, like, crying

Laura Lynn  00:52:25 
You.

Lorilee Binstock  00:52:27 
hysterical then laughing hysterical, and it was just
in in in that release of all of the energy,
really made. I felt so much lighter after it.

Laura Lynn  00:52:38 
Nice.

Lorilee Binstock  00:52:38 
And then eventually, I went to the Lsi route. And
that was... I I... That I was able to understand patterns.
Like I was understanding I'm whole host of patterns like, oh, I need to break that pattern and that pattern, that pattern.

Laura Lynn  00:52:50 
Okay.
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:52:55 
And so it's really, really helped to me
But I would say I I would say, like, the and the the magic mushrooms
under, like, under guide.

Laura Lynn  00:53:03 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:53:06 
Really really helped me because I never felt like, yes, I was able to get let go of that anger, but I still had some anger that was trapped in there. For, you know, because my trauma led to other trauma

Laura Lynn  00:53:16 
Mhmm. Yeah. That's true.

Lorilee Binstock  00:53:17 
and so I was able to during the the mushroom
journey,
I was able to
get out of that that
that real hold onto to whatever anger,
residual anger
that was still there.
And then understand. It's... Like you said earlier, Like, awareness
is really the key to everything. And I don't think there's anything that makes you more aware of, like, your reality versus

Laura Lynn  00:53:37 
Mhmm.
Yes.

Lorilee Binstock  00:53:44 
your past realities than, you know, psychedelics. Because I feel like it expands that. Like, our realities are our own realities are what we... You know, what someone told us were supposed to be growing up in our own experiences. And I think I could know, it's really just cracks it open. It's like, this is... This is this what's real. There's so many realities that are out there.

Laura Lynn  00:53:51 
Yeah
Yeah.
Mhmm.
True.

Lorilee Binstock  00:54:08 
So, yes,
I I am actually doing a documentary
on

Laura Lynn  00:54:11 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:54:13 
Psychedelic Healing following me of Veteran

Laura Lynn  00:54:14 
Nice.

Lorilee Binstock  00:54:16 
and
in an athlete who it who had healed from traumatic brain injuries
from it. So
yes, you can... I I mean, I think you... If you if you go to my account you can see if you go into the link, you'll find
that there's is a link to
the teaser
or the proof of concept of the doctor That, you know, you or anyone kids can take a look at.
And so that's what that's my current project. Because I... I'm so passionate about it. Like,

Laura Lynn  00:54:46 
Yeah. That's difficult.

Lorilee Binstock  00:54:48 
I don't think I could be... I don't think I could be a sinner for psychedelics, but, you know, I I can do something. I can educate and, like, you, you sound so much healing through therapy

Laura Lynn  00:54:52 
Mhmm
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:54:58 
that you in turn
became a hit therapist, And I think once people find that healing,

Laura Lynn  00:55:03 
Mhmm.

Lorilee Binstock  00:55:04 
they're, like, how do how do I help other people? And I think this is... This is where we are in our journey Right?

Laura Lynn  00:55:10 
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Definitely. And,
you know, I'm glad you brought that up about, you know, seeing your abuser, like, like, how what they went through because that's what I realized with mind too like... And it's and it's like a generational pattern. Right? Unless unless it stops,

Lorilee Binstock  00:55:26 
Mhmm.

Laura Lynn  00:55:29 
And I feel like, you know, we're the ones that are stopping it, and we're shifting the whole, like, energy of our own lineage

Lorilee Binstock  00:55:33 
Right.

Laura Lynn  00:55:39 
But, yeah, Like, it's a lot of people don't know
like,
like they try to do the best account what they know. And if they don't know that much, then that's that's all they know. So, like,

Lorilee Binstock  00:55:50 
Exactly.

Laura Lynn  00:55:51 
I know and it it's really sad because, you know,
like,
there's so much wisdom in all of this. And if people just knew about these things and they could make the connection and realizations,
and, like, have compassion for those that are, you know,
not doing things that people shouldn't be doing. Is because of their own experiences is like, hurt people hurt people,

Lorilee Binstock  00:56:15 
Right.

Laura Lynn  00:56:15 
but also
you people help people. So hear you and me are, like, we better healing. And we're we're here to emails spread the word of, like,
different ways to heal and how important it is.

Lorilee Binstock  00:56:29 
Absolutely.
Yes.
Well, Laura, thank you so much for joining me today. I feel like we we we covered a wide range of things, and I really

Laura Lynn  00:56:38 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:56:39 
love learning a lot more about therapy and realize I'm actually doing, like, I guess, a form of therapy because I do feel like internal family systems...

Laura Lynn  00:56:46 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:56:49 
You mentioning that, I felt...
My guess, you know, it it it's it's it's legit. I really... I'm finding so much healing through that as well.

Laura Lynn  00:56:54 
Yeah.

Lorilee Binstock  00:56:58 
So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Laura Lynn  00:57:01 
Oh, no. Thank you. So super fun.

Lorilee Binstock  00:57:03 
Oh, good. I'm so glad.
Well, thanks again, That was Laura Lynn hypnotherapist, energy healer and medical intuitive, for more information on Laura, You can click on that scrolling fortune cookie in the middle of your screen that'll will take you to her Instagram page. Also, Mark issue of authentic insider is out. Laura has actually contributed to July twenty twenty two issues. So if you wanna go ahead and check all past issues out, you can go to authentic insider or check it out at trauma thrive dot com. That's trauma survivor thriver dot com, And you can find
all the issues and, again, the latest issue If you haven't already, please subscribe to my email list
that can be at trauma survivor thriver dot com. You can get authentic insider in your magazine monthly,
Again, thank you so much for being a part of the conversation.
Join me next week when on March eighth, when I speak with author, Christine,
Mcdonald's would be... That's actually the day of her book release face value from working the poll to bury my soul.
We will be discussing how some of her childhood traumas led to her becoming an adult entertainer, which eventually led her to find healing and life as an author.
You've been listening to A Trauma Survivor Thriver's podcast on Fireside.
I'm Lorilee Binstock, again, thank you for being a part of the conversation.
Take care.

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