Thursday Nov 16, 2023
Thursday Nov 16, 2023
Thursday Nov 16, 2023
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Justin Woodbury, Victims of Abuse Advocate and Author of Sheltered but not Protected, A memoir about a young boy growing up in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church; the sexual, mental, and emotional abuse he experienced; how he escaped; and his journey to find healing and forgiveness.
We will be taking a break for the holidays and will be coming back strong into the new year with a new episode when we discuss Human Trafficking with No Trafficking Zone President and Human Trafficking Advocate, Jacquelyn Aluotto.
P.S. I wanted to get more into the conspiracy to kill in the podcast but didn't. I do highly suggest, checking out the book,Sheltered but not Protected
Thursday Nov 09, 2023
Thursday Nov 09, 2023
Thursday Nov 09, 2023
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health..
Today’s guest is Christina Wood, CEO and Founder of Woods Hypnotherapy and Coaching. Christina is a licensed Rapid Transformational Therapist®, Clinical Hypnotherapist, Empowerment Coach, and Reiki Master. She combines her background in corporate leadership along with her life experiences in dealing with trauma and abandonment to empower other women to trust their intuition and set themselves free of self-doubt.
We will be back next week when I speak with Victims of Abuse Advocate and Author of Sheltered but not Protected, Justin Woodbury when we discuss his story of abuse in a cult-like church and exposing his abuser.
Thursday Nov 02, 2023
Thursday Nov 02, 2023
Thursday Nov 02, 2023
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Donna Piper, a former Dance Movement Psychotherapist and certified Akashic Record Healer with 20 years of experience in guiding her clients to heal unresolved trauma to create healthy relationships .She is on a mission to assist women in healing past relationship trauma by tapping into the wisdom of the Akashic Records. Through this transformative process, emotional wounds are uncovered and released, in order to empower and reclaim personal power, cultivate self-love, and create healthier and fulfilling relationships.
That was Donna Piper, certified Akashic Record Healer. For more information on her, check out the show notes. November’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Donna contributed to October’s issue. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
I will be speaking at the Wonderland Conference in Miami November 9th - 11th. The Premier Global Event for psychedelics, Mental Health and Longevity. If you are looking for discounted tickets, check out the show notes for the link and use Lorilee20 for your promo code
We will be back next week when I speak with Christina Wood, CEO and Founder of Woods Hypnotherapy and Coaching when we discuss self-sabotage, why we do it and how to break the cycle.
Thursday Oct 26, 2023
Thursday Oct 26, 2023
Thursday Oct 26, 2023
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is April Pride, Host of the High Guide Podcast. April is Founder at Of Like Minds, a brand for women seeking recreational psychedelic healing. April developed The High Guide to market products and brands she creates, including Of Like Minds. April Pride was Diagnosed with Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or ADHD in her late 30s, and changed her life in every way.
That was April Pride, Host of the High Guide Podcast and Founder at Of Like Minds. For more information about April and her podcast as well as Of Like Minds, check out the show notes. November’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. April contributed to August’s issue. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
If you haven’t heard, I will be speaking at the Wonderland Conference in Miami November 9th - 11th. The Premier Global Event for psychedelics, Mental Health and Longevity. Are you curious to learn what Wonderland Conference has to offer, But struggling to make it out to Miami? They have a scholarship program designed to help those facing economic challenges of members of underrepresented communities, and the next generation of our leaders. You can apply by filling out the application here. The deadline is Oct 30.
We will be back next week when I speak with Donna Piper, when we discuss Embracing self-love, a catalyst for relationship transformation.
Thursday Oct 19, 2023
Thursday Oct 19, 2023
Thursday Oct 19, 2023
Today’s guest is Winnie Wang, A Trauma informed acupuncturist, Author of Honoring Darkness, and her recent book, Unlocking Light, She is also a Reiki and Shamanic Tao healer and shadow worker. Winnie recently founded The Compassionate Transformation Community, a nonprofit dedicated to the mental wellness of youth and their parents.
For more information about Winnie and her books and her non-profit, check out the show notes. October’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
We will be back next week when I speak with April Pride, when we discuss ADHD and the power of psychedelics.
Thursday Oct 12, 2023
Thursday Oct 12, 2023
Thursday Oct 12, 2023
Today’s guest is Jessa De La Morena, Author of The Great Reconnection. Jessa survived an aggressive cancer and then began her road to helping others on their healing journeys. She created a global initiative in her app called "U Are The Hero".
Jessa also contributed to September’s issue of Authentic Insider Magazine which you will also find in the show notes. October’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
We will be back next week when I speak with Winne Wang, when we discuss the power of acupuncture and its ability to release trauma blocks.
Thursday Oct 05, 2023
Thursday Oct 05, 2023
Thursday Oct 05, 2023
Today’s guest is Susan Justice, Author of Children who Dance in the Rain, which relays the importance of equality and mutual respect among all children, encouraging them to see the world and their peers through a lens of compassion and acceptance. Susan is a lawyer and a legal children’s advocate who co-founded South Asians Against Childhood Abuse.
Thursday Sep 28, 2023
Thursday Sep 28, 2023
Thursday Sep 28, 2023
Welcome, I’m Lorilee Binstock and this is “A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast.”
Thank you for joining us for the Premiere of Season 5 and I am proud to announce that we are now a part of the Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcast related to mental health.
Can we just admit that parenting is hard? For many, there are just as many lows as there are highs when it comes to parenting. And unfortunately, Parental depression is a pervasive problem, and a large and growing body of research shows that it is a major risk factor for difficulties in a child’s life. One of my favorite topics when it comes to healing is Psychedelics, so I am very excited about my first guest of the season to talk about Moms on Mushrooms.
My guest today is Tracey Tee, Founder of Moms on Mushrooms.Tracey has been an active voice for moms for more than a decade, first co-creating and starring in the nationally touring cult-hit comedy show for moms, The Pump and Dump Show. She simultaneously co-produced the Band of Mothers Podcast and served as co-founder and CEO of The Pump and Dump Show’s umbrella brand, Band of Mothers Media. During her own journey with psilocybin or magic mushrooms, amidst the pandemic, Tracey began to feel called to support moms in a deeper and more meaningful way. In 2022, she launched an online microdosing course created exclusively for moms called M.O.M., “Moms on Mushrooms.”
Wednesday Jun 14, 2023
Wednesday Jun 14, 2023
Wednesday Jun 14, 2023
This is a LIVE replay (edits made due to technical difficulties) of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Tuesday, June 13th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat. Today’s guest is Aaron Johnson, Co-Founder of Holistic Resistance and Grief to Action and Creator of The Chronically Under Touched Project.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:43
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside Chat, where you can be a part of the conversation
as my virtual audience.
I'm Lorilee Binstock, your host. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting to hop on stage
or sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get to everybody, but I do ask that everyone be respectful.
Today's guest is Aaron Johnson, creator of the chronically under touched project and cofounder of the holistic resistance and grief to action.
Aaron, thank you so much for joining me today.
Can you hear me okay?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:01:50
It's good to
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:52
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:01:52
it's little soft, but I can hear you better now.
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:54
Oh, you can hear
let me make sure you can hear me just fine. Is
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:01:59
I'll get you now. Yeah. That's great.
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:00
Oh, good. Good. Good. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:02:06
No. It's good to be here.
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:07
I know it's it's you typically, we have our shows on Wednesdays, but, you know, it's one of those weeks where if my kids lost last day last day of school tomorrow, and I didn't realize they'll be getting out extra early because they typically get out early on Wednesdays. I am very excited to have you on, and I wanna talk a little bit about the
chronically under touch project.
Could you talk a little bit about that?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:02:32
Yeah. It's probably one of the most ambitious projects I have
entered into over the last seven years, and
it's a project that's really tracking.
Right now, I'm focusing on African heritage men because of their how they're targeted, but we've expanded and worked with a lot of folks, but it's really about
tracking the magnitude, the impact of being chronically under touched. And how it bleeds into mental health. It bleeds into
complication on the cassette and
It it it impacts folks in that are incarcerated,
folks that can be arrested because of their chronic index trauma stories and how it manifest in their lives. And then how oppression kinda doubles down on that. And so the Crokonetouch project is me
slowing down in community.
What it means to build a comprehensive touch plan
for a body in this context in this moment. I'm working heavily with this young black man, how we build a photonic
comprehensive touch plan for them, and where where do they go? How do we build it? How do we get ahead of it? How do we even introduce the idea? So it's a it's a big project, but it's it's really
profoundly impacting my life and the folks I'm able to work with.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:44
Amazing. Well, can you talk what do you mean when you when you say
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:03:51
So there's a couple ways we track it.
I would say a big portion of population is chronic and in touch, but we with the spectrum that was all extreme, my first kind of birth the phrase and kind of really understood the magnitude of what happens to a body and to individual that is crunching a touch. It was a young man I was working with seven years ago, and he
Me and him were in this, like, mentorship. I was mentoring him, and I was trying to bring him to a space of balance. And we were in arguments almost daily. I remember sitting down with him one day trying to find a groundings base. And I said, you know, when was the last time you had thoughtful platonic touch
over the last twelve months for three minutes?
Hey, Seth there. Now maybe I'm sitting there and going,
I can't think of three minutes in the last twelve months that I've received thoughtful, photonic
And as extreme as that might actually feel,
that was actually pretty normal.
For a lot of folks I met thereafter.
Is that being under touch
on that extreme level? You can't even think of three minutes of thoughtful platonic continuous touch,
that would be that would be a pretty heavy level. And I would say, you know, average person
for just nervous and balance fifteen minutes of thoughtful but tonic touch, and many folks qualify there of not getting that. So there's a way of just tracking the
the impact of on different bodies, different demographics, the economic levels, the impact. But the for him, I would say, anyone that's in that level of three minutes a year or less, that's extreme, but that's that's chronic, and that's serious. And we need to get to get ahead of that and build some thinking around it.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:33
And do you mean
hand holding? Is it consecutive?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:05:39
Yeah. We want I mean, ideally,
is consecutive. Right? Ideally, we are dealing with folks that it's it's it's continuous for three minutes. I mean, most hugs are five to eight seconds, and so it would take a lot of hugs to get to the three minute mark. So I think for me being able to realize hand holding is one of our common entry points for a lot of the people I work with, we just practice
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:49
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:06:01
simple hand holding and and holding attention to our bodies in that process. So handhold is a common way.
We often have a sit and hold hands because the trauma story of walking and holding hands is black sis, and and the chronic ways is really complicated. My culture is still sitting and dropping to our bodies in more meditative space is the most common way we have been able to build thoughtful touch plan for folks, but it also goes shoulder to shoulder back to back, cuddling all those are advanced, but we we start with the handholding typically in our in our program.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:29
I wonder, like, as as an adult, I'm thinking. Am I am I am I touched for three minutes at a time?
And and it's interesting when you you talk about touch and how important it is because, you know you know, when your your child is born or when a child is born, they, you know,
most I mean, not necessarily hospitals, but, you know, let's say, for me, I worked with Adula, and the first thing they they talk about is putting the child on your body. How important it is to
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:06:56
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:59
to have that release of oxytocin.
And and I guess that's that's the same way as adults, but we don't really think about it that way.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:07:07
and and working full time and having bigger trans players can push us out of even though it's in the magnitude of what happens over time.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:16
Well, I wanna get back to that a little bit more, but you are also the cofounder
of the holistic
and grief to action.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:07:25
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:26
Can you talk a little bit about the holistic resistance and and your purpose?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:07:27
Yeah. Holistic resistance is the umbrella org.
It really supports
our nonprofit arm of grief to action, and it definitely is helping fund and organize
the cut project, holistic resistance is our oldest
some specific things. Holistic resistance is about
dismancing oppression at every level. We realized that
we can't take it all on, but we really wanted to notice that oppression hits the the nervous system hits the body, hits the community, hits you know, so we realized I remember I was sitting in the car, and we were talking with the fellow activists, and they were expressing there in college at the time was like, Erin, I'm doing all the right things.
I'm I'm going to college. I'm trying to and the impression still comment
It's like I'm holistically oppressed and I remember looking at them going. We have to holistically resist,
and we both froze. Like, Wait a minute. What did you say? I said, holistically resist. Write down. Write down. Write down. Hosting resist. And we really thought about it for a couple of months and said, like, what does it mean to resist with our money? To resist with our care for the environment, to resist with our relationships,
to resist with how we eat our food, not that we can nail it every single time, but it's tracking all the ways that Oh, question can come for us how do we push back? And so, mostly, holistic resistance is a
the economic structure is it teaches workshops. And we do consulting. We do one on one programs, and we do facilitate training programs. And so in that, that's kind of the the entry point into
this mounting oppression, but we also do song circles, which is a profound place for us to be reclaimed the voice. And we do a lot of encouragement around natural building, minimalist living, I live in a tiny house. The host of resistance says, how can we find simple, practical, accessible ways
to build village around this mounting oppression? That's kind of the the the mission statement and the marching orders that we we we walk and go forth with holistic resistance.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:24
Well, how do you do that? I can imagine. That's a that's a
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:09:27
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:28
in in in the world we're living right now. And right now, it it
that's quite a challenge and and and quite a mission.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:09:36
Yeah. It will we will we wanna be practical about it. Right? We're not we're not gonna be
on every day to we I I remember I was in film school, and I was talking to my film director, and we were like, well, March the worst is, like, twenty on years ago. Walmart's the worst. You don't wanna get anything from Walmart. Now they're like
what? By the time we're like, Walmart's the worst, and he's like, you know, but they have cameras or really good prices.
As a radical filmmaker, go buy a camera from Walmart and make a good documentary,
even if you're taking Walmart, use the system at times,
when you have to. Right? You're you're a, you know, a broke college student. You need to make a camera. Don't not go to Walmart and buy your camera. Go buy it, and then go make your bomb film, and then make that film
Guirteenth in Walmart.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:25
Yep. Well, you know, that's interesting my friends used to because my that I have friends who
have issues with certain companies,
and they won't they won't purchase, but there are those moments where they're just like they have to. Right?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:10:35
I have a small footprint.
Yeah. You know, you can be in apartment. You can be in the house, but the idea is that we're just we're working constantly orient ourselves.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:38
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:10:44
As accessible to be aware of oppression. When we can step forward and make a big move, we do. I would say if you have five million dollars, donate it if you have five dollars on it, it's all towards the same dismantling. Is we do what we are able to do and not try and get too much to a high stance. So I just just just really being able to track and just notice
how a person shows up and how you can live a lifestyle continuously to adjust
against it when it makes sense for your nervous system and your lifestyle that that you can do. So that's the That's the I'm not here to tell people to sell their house and move to off grid spaces in order to be host resistance. It's not at all. It's more about finding that space of, like, I wanna be a part I wanna make sure I'm resisting, not just in my marching, not just in my donations, not just in my cow, obviously, my kids, but we're trying doing all the ways I possibly can. We're trying to have a a more holistic approach to a dismantling no question.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:34
Well, I wanted to talk about and you focus on
specifically African American men and the LGBTQ
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:11:43
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:45
Would that is that something that you thought
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:11:50
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:54
was extremely important to you?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:11:57
It's the hardest group to reach for often times with it comes to building out ecosystems of any kind of
Those that are targeted by oppression
money resource, less time. They're they're really busy surviving oppression. So trying to focus on them as a
group we support and allied ship with, we found to be a good starting point. How we supported white folks in this work, of course, how we supported
Latinx folks in this work and all of the people at low majority we definitely have, but we find that
Even though I'm a black man,
I will have three gatherings
in a given year, and two be African heritage ones, and the the ones that are the biggest economic
investment oftentimes gathering people to low majority in African agriculture specifically just because they have to, like,
get childcare and navigate oppression and travel costs country, like, there's a way that we have to just track them. And so I always start with the group that I find is oftentimes
the hardest access to. If I say a cuddle party
and say, anywhere in California,
I'll get thirty white folks to show up to that event. If I say cut a party and say black men,
We got you know, we'll get five, and that's a crowd. Right? And we'll get eight, and that's that's you're winning because it's such a a targeted space. So I know I can have a club authority in the prom anywhere in the West Coast and have thirty white women show up.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:15
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:13:24
And, one, maybe queer, personal global majority, and maybe African heritage. And I could also have a couple of partner I'm not gonna hardcore for, and I'll get five black men going out. I'm gonna try this out. This seems kinda strange because I've never seen it before. I'm gonna try, like, we just try and track those groups if this becomes a high calorie burn from the show up and believe it happens because we see more if I have a boxing club or a basketball club or a wrestling club or some kind of after kind of aggressive sport, we can crowd that with black male bodies and and and male bodies. But when you say tenderness, you wanna say closeness, you wanna say cuddles,
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:37
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:13:56
cuddles and black men by us on Google, but now now you're talking about things you cannot Google. I can Google black men even be executed
in the street, but I cannot Google
Tusa black men sitting in a public space just tentatively being with each other in the United States. Outside this country is more common, but in the United States, Now you're talking about it really bad o'clock.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:15
Well, how do you reach out to those groups,
the LGBT groups, and the African American
of, like, a cuttle party, and I wanna get to that too. I wanted to know more about the the cuddle party, but how are you reaching out?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:14:29
holistic existence was born out of mentorship program. So we were mentoring black men. So I already had a critical mass of black men that I had mentioned over the years. And so I kind of started with those folks that I already were working with, and my mentorship group was more about, like, how to keep them out of jail,
how to get them jobs, how to get them cars, how to get them, like, this but, you know, their your feet under them to keep going into society. So that was a that kinda that that is a crowded field. When you say mentorship, that is the actual profile. Credit field. So then I'm not filled where you got them all in one space. This organically from the years of doing this work, I mentor for almost fifteen years before I birthed, holistic resistance.
When I did that, I had a little bit of a a color profile,
and then I
in in touring. So I'm on tour right now. So I'm traveling.
Like, tonight, I'm flying to Colorado.
I'll be in Denver, and I'm going after after Denver four days, I'll be in North Carolina from North Carolina back in Los Angeles.
Working with three black men project with Resma, Menacom. And and so for me, I am I am literally going to Denver. I'm getting three black men to connect with.
The East Coast, I get twenty. Then I go LA up, but I get a hundred and twenty hopefully. Right? So I I'm really going to where they're gathering in presenting my my idea and a practice, and and out of a hundred men, you'll get ten up. Like, I'm into it. And oftentimes, who have been a big ally is
black women. Black women have had been partnered with black men. They're they're hearing about my project. They're going, my husband needs to talk to you. My son needs to talk to you. My my brother has talked to you. So black women have been by far the biggest supporters of the Kroger Touch project, and, also, other folks are in, like, mixed relationships.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:00
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:16:10
I just talked to a person who's in my silently treat this weekend.
That says, I have a partner. He's dark, but he's not out there. He's just Latin American, but his dark I see his Tucano. I didn't advise Tucano,
and he's dark,
he could use his program. So there's a way that a lot of partners are coming to me. I I I I think that would be if I would say that what's the secret ingredient to making it work right now is black women.
Black women are are really the champions of spreading the word. I'm getting more text and calls and emails from black women. And about their partners and or or or from the black man because their partner, you need to call you need to email him there. She email the cut project. It does stop getting this support, and it's really helpful because I think these black men are showing up really wanting something like this, but it's never seen in it available.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:56
Wow. Wow. That's amazing.
other organizations or companies to try to promote this?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:17:06
Yeah. So I'm I'm hitting the bat everybody. But, yes,
So I work with because the holistic resistance, we do a lot of consulting work with, like, yoga studios, and we work with
just different orgs throughout the last ten years or seven years, almost seniors.
And so I'm constantly
letting them know that I'm available
offer this project consulting work. And so the three men three black men project in Los Angeles is the biggest collaboration, I have to date with the ResMA
being one of the, you know, New York Times best selling author of grandmother's hands. And so this is the biggest I would say he's the biggest, like, Allyship
person that's been, like, I wanna back this. I wanna support this. I wanna join. Unless you come in let invite you into our conference. So I would say, yes. That would be
our biggest. I I just talked to a couple of folks that sent me contacts from folks in Denver, actually, that some retired NFL players that wanna talk to me about this project as well. And I'm really excited talking to folks that have been
you know, on this, like, perform at the highest level of athleticism in football. That's, like, the the biggest native of the black brute, you know, narrative to see how they can think about tenderness football is like the opposite of tinnitus. So talking to retired NFL players would be one of my goals. So I I don't think I'll ever join or or collab with NFL because we're kind of the the poor offices of each other. But folks that have kind of retired or or or left that system, I'm really interested in talking to them. So I'm really used to talking about folks that are retired from
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:21
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:18:31
these high levels of aggression to think about where is the tenderness in their experience and how do they build that up and how does their personas athlete
hurt or hinder
their Tinder photonic experience with the black men.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:44
What about colleges?
I feel like our schools
Is that also something that
you're reaching out to?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:18:54
Yeah, colleges are huge.
I haven't had a big success in Uniti, but I think this is a matter of time once I get
a good like, contacts into the college that thought they have that that space, like a good sorority or a group, or people that really are thinking about this stuff. But I haven't made
big context for colleges yet, but that would be a great I imagine that'd be a great place to drop into because of the the age bracket that the challenge of the colleges is that the ecosystem is Pacific. You know, they they have a Pacific way to enter those spaces. And so I'm trying to find the
the most freely liberating way to enter to a college. But, yeah, I think colleges are gonna be a great demographic to target here soon.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:29
Yeah. I would think so.
And, you know, I wanted to talk about, like,
DI, our diverse
And I I know that you kind of you kind of work around that anti racism work. And and going back to schools, you know, actually, my daughter's school. She's in elementary school.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:19:49
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:53
They actually have a DI representative
at their school.
Do you think that that Yeah. I know. It's really cool. It's it's it's she's been there for several years. She's amazing.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:20:00
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:06
And I know that you kinda talk about some common mistakes that companies make. So I kinda wanna talk a little bit about that, like, common mistakes that companies make with doing DAI and anti racism work.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:20:11
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:18
But I also kinda I'm I'm curious to what what you think about hap hap schools doing it as well.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:20:23
Yeah. I work with a lot of like, I work with Oakland Unified multiple schools in their districts. So I work with
Palm Springs. I work with a lot of schools over the years.
Schools are amazing,
first of all. And
challenging when it comes to the eye space. It's a very evolving
industry in Howard. It's a powerful place that we transform young folks and teachers' environment, and it's also a place where you have specific limitations.
But one of the things I would say when it comes to schools and common mistakes, that schools can make or we should be watching for as parents and as participants, and then also, like, organizations
that are, like, doing DI work where they can oftentimes stumble. I think school specifically
is probably one of the most sacred places to do it if I can even say that out loud because students, minds are being shaped. And so being having a diverse and thoughtful curriculum,
having a classroom that is tracking all the bodies in there and all the people in all identities, and there is is is is a high task coming out of, like, the last twenty years, but it's an important task to have. The thing I think schools make
how those mistake was oftentimes what what frame is a mistake is they're oftentimes reactionary. So they'll oftentimes call in a DI person after
the harm is done, and the oftentimes fight for budget after damage is done. And that's that's kinda common in most industries, but in schools, it feels particularly painful. You could talk about young young
and they're young experience. And so it feels really like it's it's always a eighty percent time is reactionary. So there's some kind of way that
a a teacher or a district gets tune some of the mistakes until they get they get invited to a big conversation. They come in with it. Every once in a while, we get some schools that wanna get ahead of it, but generally speaking, it's a reactionary. So I think one of the first things I think is that it has to be
framed more as
a essential part of the whole educational experience, and that's what that has to it has to have damage before I respond.
So that's what comments that I see. The second thing I would say is
help us require the people to get trainings. And I think that's important because the teachers already overworked a lot, and it's hard for them to show up to things. But I think there's a way to give
staff options to leave, the AI training means if they don't have the capacity to be there. I see that because when you force your audience to be there, they're just going through the motions. And I rather have five teachers that are hearing, fighting, ready to go than tin there, like, on their laptops trying to figure how to not be in the room.
Because this is life saving work. This is like CPR. If we're gonna do CPR and you're gonna be in your laptop and someone has a specialty in your classroom, you know, like, what happened?
There are students that are that are losing their lives
on multiple levels because they don't have
a full comprehensive support around their identities and their experience and their education experience in a very vulnerable time. And so for me, I feel like the urgency oftentimes is a there's a song I remember seeing as It says there's a fire in the mountain, no one seems to be on the run. That's how I feel oftentimes
I smell the smoke. I see the fire, but it was relaxed. Until the fire gets so big. It's so, you know, starts taking lives, and we start getting get get excited by it. So I'm like, I I wanna see us
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:31
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:23:36
get prepared before the smoke is in the air. And so that's the thing that I often will will encourage. The last thing I'll say that often's a common mistake, and I I say this often, but people will kinda go past this quickly, and that is speed. I think people underestimate how much time it takes to shift the culture at a school in a classroom.
And oftentimes time also means more money, but I would say that
it's better to do a methodical,
DI experienced in a weekend to solve thirty years of dysfunction. So I think the realistic of time
makes sense. If anyone wanted to lose, like, fifty pounds in a gym, they don't go to the gym in a week, and they go, hey. I got a, you know, important date next week. If you didn't get me in this gym and workout, lose fifty pounds. And you train them, but, like, get out of here. I'm not a surgeon. This is it takes it takes months, a bunch of years to drop that kind
of improvement on the body or shift in your in your whatever you're doing. And I think DI, all the same category we have energetic a lot to burn off our our our move through our systems, shape us, and we don't have that kind of
investment. There's a there's a it's kind of an unbalance of how much time it takes to really
heal and notice
and then start building comprehensive,
custom healing practice for that school, and that's the disconnect in that region.
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:49
Absolutely. I think that that
you're you're right. I feel like in in a lot of places,
having a DEI
come in would be very much reactionary.
So I do feel fortunate because I I think they they
my daughter's school's d EI rep years ago.
And she's not she's just she's she there she goes into classrooms. There she brings in a topic,
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:25:16
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:21
and it's and it's amazing.
And so yes. And I think I think I I feel like and I live in a very progressive area. I'm in Washington, DC.
Extremely progressive. And so there's there are a lot of companies that also have DEI
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:25:31
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:36
reps, and and so I think that's that's
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:25:37
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:39
really, really amazing.
But in in other places of the country, obviously, there there's still some some struggle and some issues and actually really
and talking about this
this topic. Right?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:25:57
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:59
And and, you know, one of the questions I wanted to ask was what is the shaping force of the black experience in America. And and if we could also throw in, like, LGBTQ
as well if that if if we can.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:26:10
You know, when I look at the shaping force, that is when one of the things that has kept me up at night. You know, there's a way that
you grow up and you see your parents and your family, and
you just like our eating breakfast going to school, trying to find who runs faster, and and maybe you got a new belt or whatever is hot in your age at that time, and and you don't notice because you're you're eight, you're ten. You don't notice that you're being shaped.
And so when I look at the black experience in America, I I try to say, what is what are the things I see that are shaping all of us towards a certain direction where events
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:37
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:26:48
or structural things in place that that are thematically shaping black bodies in America.
And one of the things I was tracking is because I'm forty one. It's been forty one in May. And one thing I track is that I went to school and high school in the nineties. Right? And what I track is there was a space where I remember living
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:05
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:27:07
handheld tech like cellphones, especially in high school didn't have a cell phone. Right? And so by the time I got into college and started having more tech, and when I saw store shipping forces, not just we got tech.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:12
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:27:19
But it's how black bodies show up in tech.
How are we not just in, like, a tech industry with a hold of a conversation, but on all the platforms with a common theme of how American culture wants to extract
the black experience or show the black experience and how does that shake my experience. And one of the things I saw that's still intact
one of the biggest shaping forces
of black male bodies in this culture is athleticism.
And sports. And not just, like, oh, yeah. I play sports and high school. I play football too, but really is
is how much America stops thinking about valuing black bodies after their bias are not used for either hypersexual activity or athletic activity. Once we get past that point, we stop thinking with a handful of, like, Obama who surprises, like, oh my goodness. It'd be president. When we saw this, like, immediate flash pushback against that narrative, it was a shift in our culture to see him become president habit for eight years because a whole different narrative of, like,
how we we didn't celebrate the Obama like bodies, the Obama like thinkers as a collective culture.
Obama did surprise and was interested about that as a shooting force.
And black bodies is how
was the perfect
timing wise, but the perfect
ideal black body for America, and it was almost too much for America in hindsight. At the time, it was like, Greg, we're we're figuring it out. But I look at his skin tone. I look at his mixed heritage. I look at how
manageable black he was. Right? I have no beef with Obama about how manageable he was as opposed to if we darken his skin a bit. Right?
By about five stage, how much that would impact
if we added some some some
some some language that wasn't so smooth. He had to get communicator that was that was very skilled. He couldn't he couldn't communicate
at a level of other other presence that struggle with communication.
He would never be president. He had to speak at a certain level. So but the the shaving force is is is when excellence shows up,
it can't be too excellent.
It can't be too aggressive. So and then there the shooting force is really finding that
lack of attention
for the black body
they they they can't be distracted from easily. So NFL, UFC, the NBA, still the dominant,
male domination spaces. Now to expand a bit to the LGBTQ and the and the and the black celebrities to be a little bit outside of my lane, my own name, what happens is that it's echo. There's a complete echo when the black brute is to the dominant
most invested in black body in America.
It does start to set a similar path, a parallel path for that same community of algebraic community and transmedia as well, because transmedia is is is targeted by black sismin,
partly because of our our trauma story around being full human beings too. And so there's a piece where black men had been told, I don't know if you've seen the sign that says I am a man. It was a sign, in fact, in nineteen sixty eight.
Trash, nineteen sixties. I'm sure that's the actual date
protests. The black women walking, you could find it's a very popular I am a man. And you might even heard the phrase that was said historically like, hey. Boy. My stuff. Hey. Boy. Boy was used as a way to diminish the black male. It's been so so black men fought really hard to be men. Like, I wanna be a full
man. The same as I wanna be a full human. Right? I wouldn't be a brute I wouldn't be a full human. And then we get to this era now. We're like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:41
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:30:45
I don't wanna be a male or a female. I wouldn't be non binary. If you're holding that trauma story, you've fought just to be a man,
that generation is really shook. Like, how dare you even how how how do you have the privilege of of
of of of changing that identity? So so I've been working hard in the cut project
to slow down a lot of cis black men around
the civil to the trans community because of how
we are weaponized against each other as a very tender
tender relationship. And so there's a ripple effect that
we're healing from. And I would say we're we're in the beginning stages of
understanding the depth of how the
parallels between being the black brute and not being seen as a complex emotional being intended, all that's not available.
Weaponizes. There's a lot of things, but also can weaponize us against
our trans community
in a very, very dangerous way. And I've seen some major beautiful progress in that, but there's a way that we're still in the early stages of that. And and and that's also a place where I think
we don't discuss enough. And I would say the shaping force,
you know, in the LGBTQ community, is I have found
the ecosystem is getting stronger. Over the last, say, ten years, let's say, stronger. There's there's government progress. There's financial investment, but there's also legislation flashback right now. So I think shipping force right now is political.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:08
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:32:08
It is it is it is political and medical in a lot of ways. There's a way that we've made progress and it's been a clap somebody build, and the lines are being drawn right now. So I think it's a political shaping force. And I'm really invested into knowing how we can
see how this kind of political fallout from East Coast to West,
how we see bodies, and how we support TransUnion, and how we support
the queer community
and how we can build allieship because one of the things I constantly see is that we're we're we're we if we aren't careful,
we can be a lot of internal
collapsing of conflict with each other. And so that's why I'm constantly tracking when I was just at a an event where there's an amazing gathering of folks and it was a some cis black man having a hard time with trans black folks, and it's a white controlled space. And they're like, I don't know what to do. We finally got white people here. Now we have this really complicated conflict amongst the black folks. And this is not new, but it's actually a place where we can actually collapse in our progress of the overall progress
because of those kind of intersections appealing that you take place. So saving force is gonna be how we can skillfully
build village around these tender places where we have historical pain that's showing up
but not being identified until someone tracks it well. So trauma tracking the black group narrative and and transphobia and homophobia and finding ways to land together is gonna be a shipping force, and it is a shipping force right now. Our ability to unify at the numbers we want to see legislation, to see the protection, the medical
accessed everybody that is needed. And we have a history of medical
damage to black bodies, and it's a we were living through these right now of medical attacks on trans bodies too and and queer bodies. So it's a it's a dance. So I think those are gonna be big chicken forces for us right now in this era.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:49
Wow. Yeah. That's amazing.
You know, a lot of things there that that that really came to mind. And then, you know, I do wanna mention, you know, an authentic insider in June's issue. We had our prosecutor's POV.
focus on trans in the law, and it's in it's insane how many
trans bills or or
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:34:12
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:12
being introduced, nearly five hundred,
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:34:15
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:16
and and and that is it's surprising.
what what would your organization
do or say
about it about what is happening right now?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:34:25
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:28
Especially during Pride Month.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:34:28
Well, it's interesting.
Yeah. I think one of the things that's important is resources. You know, I find that when I look at
our ability to move on legislation, our ability to
at the medical space that comes down to skillful ways to create capital, and organize that capital to
to interrupt it. We live in a capitalist culture. So I realize right now,
a place where
funding is needed.
I think we have the heart. We have the that we have the the
the direction you need to go, I think it's the fuel and that's the finance. And so for me, one of my biggest goals right now is to raise capital to port orgs that are doing it. So for me, I I think bodies on the ground is important. I think
showing up and and March is important, but without a sustainable
economic structure behind these orgs, we're gonna find ourselves
stumbling in the fourth quarter, and I think we really need to be strong in the fourth quarter. So for me, the biggest thing right now is
is is painful, and this is almost consistent across all the movements.
Is that if you would've saw my email box,
the weeks after George Floyd
was killed publicly,
And any time we have a massive death publicly,
we get flooded with either donations or emails, and almost you can set a clock to a three months after the event.
Its crickets again. And what's important is that has to be we can't feel resistance only when the media gets excited about it.
I get invited to more speaking engagements, some more
in black history month, the entire of the year.
But last time I checked,
trans folks, queer folks, black folks were impressed twelve months out of the year. And so there's a way that
I wanna make sure that we show up on the times that
our time to show up for always a, you know, pride month or black history month, then And and when things happen in the media, that's important to notice it. But there's a way that the falloff
does a lot like American. It's like a snacking snacking resistance. So I would say the most important thing we can do is not have snacks on our resistance,
but have a
full meal that we're growing from the ground. It takes twelve months to grow, and we cultivate, we water it as consistent.
To me, I find that to be one of the biggest things we can do is not
let media alone be our motivation to show up for folks that are being talking about oppression.
That's one of the the the biggest tricks, I think, that that mainstream culture goes to us is we have so much content coming towards us that we don't understand the methodical work this looks like. It's that same sensation I feel like when I go in as a keynote at elementary school, and the kids are so excited coming in. I b box nice seeing. I tell them some good things.
And I leave. You know what real superstars are? Those teachers that show up every single
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:15
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:37:15
Monday through Friday,
those are the ones we should get on our feet for every day, but it's like I see them every day. I think for granted. That's almost under his men's, like, the news comes in like a keynote speaker and goes, hey. How you doing? This thing has happened. Oh my goodness. How bad it is. Watch a couple times. And then we're all and then we all go away. And it but there's no consistency.
Right? So for me, that's it. That's it. I'm on tour right now for seven months because methodical.
This is methodical
movement across the planet.
To make sure that we're not just having flashpoint experiences.
And so for me, I think that's the piece that I would say we're doing holistic resistance. We're we're encouraging folks.
To take off their sprinting shoes, and put on their marathon shoes, drink a lot of water, and get ready for the marathon version of dismantling the system.
That with capital,
is gonna shift everything.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:04
Yep. Constant education.
Just constant constant education.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:38:06
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:08
Is there anything
that you would like to share that I haven't touched on?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:38:15
I will say
you're talking about everything, but I would say have deep gratitude
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:19
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:38:20
around the cup project. And I would say the cup project is we're making a documentary. I kinda referred to earlier, but we're making a documentary. And I just wanna invite folks, like, you know, all the listeners and people in the community that you might know someone that might wanna be in the film or go through the programming document in the process, we're definitely looking for candidates to be in the film of that project, and that feels like an important
way to scale the the unglobable images of
of a comprehensive photonic touch plan for folks to be available. And I would say, we're also building some cut community workshops coming up
next year, we are in the process of a land transfer in Northern California of a hundred eighty nine acres. It's off grid. This is
beautiful landscape of of nature here in North Carolina. You don't get enough to Anderson Valley, but it's this gorgeous
forest, and we wanna build
black bodies, people to go majority, to be with the land,
to be building a a a confident touch plan with nature. Because one of the things in touch plan is to be close to nature as well and singing. Now, miss singers for singers, singing for everybody. So singing
connecting in nature next year because it might as well encourage folks that are interested in that to just, like, reach out, let us know what your interest is, and we'll give you more details on that event. But the cut communities are being built here hopefully, all got United States right now. We're starting to West Coast and we have land here, but West Coast cut community workshops and experiences. So I just wanna invite people to think about that with us, and And if you are
unknown that I know DC is a lot of black folks, so unknown
unknown black cuttle party isn't happening for black men, I don't know about, please let's talk about it because I'm getting as huge. And so on the West Coast, I think that we are building that that coalition, but it's still
an un googled state. And
That to me is one of the things I wanna make sure that we're able to make not rare anymore. So I just wanna name that as a a physical to my heart, and so I'm gonna be on your show and pick your path to me.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:09
Well, thank you so much. And and can people find information on
on all of the work you're doing
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:40:19
Yeah. Holizabethses dot com and cut project dot org. Both of those are are places you can find me.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:19
Is that right?
Awesome. Yes. I do have holistic,
dot com scrolling right there, and
where the fortune cookie is. You can actually click on that fortune cookie, and that will go ahead and send you to that website.
But, Aaron, thank you so much for joining me. It's been a pleasure. This is our hundredth episode, so I'm I'm honored for you to be here today. So thank you.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:40:47
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:48
That was Aaron Johnson creator of the chronically under touched project and cofounder of the holistic resistance and grief to action For more information on Erin, you can click on that scrolling fortune cookie right there on your screen. We will also have it in the show notes. Also, June's issue of Authentic Insider is out. Checkout Authentic Insider at trauma survivor thriver dot com. That's trauma survivor thriver dot com. If you haven't already, please subscribe to my email list to get authentic insider magazine in your inbox monthly.
Well, that wraps up season four of a trauma survivor, Thrivers
podcast, but we'll be back in the fall for September
in September for season five. Please sign up to our email list to get updates and follow me on social media, you can find those links at traumasurvivorthriver.com. I'm Lorilee Binstock. Again, thank you for being a part of the conversation and joining me for the hundredth episode.
Hope to see you in the fall. Take care.
Wednesday Jun 07, 2023
Wednesday Jun 07, 2023
Wednesday Jun 07, 2023
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, June 7th, 2023 at 11:30am ET on Fireside Chat.
For more information about Jessica Depatie's work, visit https://www.shadowmedia.group/links.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:35
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock and this
is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside chat where you can be a
part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host.
Flor then stock. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest
questions by requesting to hop on stage, but I do ask that everybody be respect
Today's guest is Jessica Defeats executive producer of dark
of our soul. She's also the host of shadow work library podcast.
And she's is actually a shadow work educator, Jessica, thank you so much.
For joining me today.
Oh, I think I actually pop you off stage. Are you there?
Jessica Depatie 00:01:39
Hi. Can you hear me?
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:40
I could hear you. How are you? Thank you so much for joining me today.
Jessica Depatie 00:01:46
Thank you so much for having me and what's cool off where I'm all about this.
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:50
I know it it's actually really, really cool. You
people can pop in and pop out and and listen to replay and
join in on the conversation, which I really love because I
I feel like a lot of people
are interested in and taught and talking to a lot of my guests about
you know, things that are this
that they're doing how people are healing.
And you you are a shadow work educator, which I think is really
cool. And so I wanna learn more about that, but I also wanna know a little bit about your
story and what got you into this work.
Jessica Depatie 00:02:19
So wow where do we start?
You know, it's interesting that we're having this conversation on your show, the trauma survivor podcast
because my story isn't that remarkable, but I think it's a common
I I think that's why it's worth sharing. The lack of
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:38
Jessica Depatie 00:02:40
extravagant around it,
and more the
the universal story that
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:47
Jessica Depatie 00:02:47
everybody has trauma, you know, and the documentary that we're working on right now,
one of the experts, Anderson Todd, who is the assistant director of wisdom and
consciousness studies out of you know, received Toronto. He
says nobody gets out of the parking lot without putting dungeon in the car. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:02
Jessica Depatie 00:03:04
And so... That is that is my story.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:05
That was I was like that's so accurate.
Jessica Depatie 00:03:07
Yeah. And so my
Is basically growing up
I felt like there was a purpose to the trials
that I would
put myself in, You know?
A lot of the traumatic experiences that when my experience happen
to us. And
it's kind of a fabric
the fabric of our human experience. You know, challenges happen.
And some are very remarkable in some, like mine are just like,
you know, my mom was she's Korean, and she felt
strange in a new country, And I adopted that feeling strange
but in my own country, you know? And so
the traumatic experience that I had was having a really strong platform that I'm
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:00
Jessica Depatie 00:03:58
not accepted that I am rejected
and I would put myself in a lot of situations where I would reject
people before it they rejected me, and that was a coping mechanism that I
learned later on, by
Yeah. For me, was some
pretty severe bullying and
like, isolation from about the fourth grade, the eighth grade
crystal it myself that I'm weird. I'm unwanted
Yeah. I just realized in that experience now looking in hindsight and having that
really affect me as an adult. I needed to look at what is this? You know?
There aren't... There weren't a ton of resources. I Didn't even think I needed a resource.
To resolve that. And so that's how I started getting into shadow work.
Because as I
grew up, got in high school god university.
I then realized that I am intentionally putting myself into these situations
are harmful for myself. Why am I doing that? Because I'm definitely learning from all these
and is this the way to learn is obstacle really the way?
Is there a silver lining to of this? So that's what I've been exploring. Basically, as my life's work
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:09
that's fascinating. You know, that's really interesting. You say, you no, it's not that
extravagant, you know, your life story, but your story is
Jessica Depatie 00:05:16
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:16
so many other people's stories. I feel like a lot of people
where I And in tell many different ways, feel
isolated. They feel like an outsider.
And they feel different, and that makes them feel weird. And, you know, I've I felt like
that as well. I'm a
I'm a child of imagery immigrant parent.
And it did it did feel. You know, I I grew up in Jacksonville, Florida. And I
at that time, there there want a lot of other Filipino
in where I live I live by the beach. And so
I didn't realize that I would
Jessica Depatie 00:05:51
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:53
I was different until, you know,
Jessica Depatie 00:05:59
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:56
it was pointed out to me and then I was like, oh, I I'm different. I didn't realize that.
So I feel like
there are people, especially, you know, in fourth grade.
That, you know,
that feel different, but they don't know why. And I I've
I I'm so fascinated. When did you feel?
When you were an adult, when you needed to explore this,
And how did you
decide, like, okay, I'm gonna do shadow work
is there someone that you met or you talk to?
Who introduce you to this.
Jessica Depatie 00:06:27
So I would say when I was younger,
I went in a really locked into an observer period.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:36
Jessica Depatie 00:06:35
When might call that dis, but it was very top down experience of my own life.
And constantly thinking, like, what is wrong with me that people don't wanna talk to me?
At this point right now, I know that it was my own platform, and that I
like, created that existence for myself.
As a kid, you know, I'm just, like, why am I so weird? Like, what is up with this?
And having every lunch but I was just, like, tread research
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:00
Jessica Depatie 00:06:59
adding lunch because I'd have to sit by myself and
all of that. And
just constantly thinking, like,
there's something wrong with me. I have to figure this out. I have to figure this out.
So when I went to a different school,
in high school. Like, I'm going to be different.
I know I'm an extra extroverted person. I know that I can
have conversations with people. I know that I'm another version of myself in there somewhere that I have
and given myself the option to be
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:24
Jessica Depatie 00:07:27
Right? But in doing that, I
I didn't have any tools. I didn't have any friends and I
couldn't or he didn't wanna talk to my parents about it because I wanted them to be proud of me I didn't wanna
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:41
Jessica Depatie 00:07:39
tell them that, you know I'm suffering, and I'm like,
lonely and all these things the had pride. Right? And so
all I had with myself. And with a lack of
tools and resources. I turn to drinking
So that's kinda of how I got into high school, and to give myself some credit, I did learn
quite a bit around social social cues, like socializing my myself in that
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:01
Jessica Depatie 00:08:03
But also, with that, I developed a habit of needing booze to
access as part of myself. And so with that habit, it followed me into university
Again, not a very remarkable story. And I I keep highlighting that because
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:20
Jessica Depatie 00:08:18
it's is normalized to drink a lot in college and through high school,
but it really isn't. It doesn't have to be that way. And I think these younger generate
the ones that are going through it right now, they're understanding that they know more than we did back in the day.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:29
Jessica Depatie 00:08:31
Which is so amazing. But back of my day, you know, like, what did I graduate?
You ever university seen, like,
ten or so. That was a standard, you know, blocking out every weekend.
Was not uncommon.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:40
Jessica Depatie 00:08:43
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:44
Jessica Depatie 00:08:44
Problem. My mom is super psychic. She just
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:50
Oh, that's tiffany.
Jessica Depatie 00:08:53
Yeah. I got to a point where I was graduating university
I was starting a corporate career and
the Salesforce that I joined was really old
like, nineties sales floor, everybody in shoes
real cool fun hustle, lots of money
And with that, drugs alcohol were a thing, but I looked
I had the awareness somehow at that point. To be, like,
if people are not happy. You know, I'm not trying to be at this company for the next five years and turn into this.
And, like, no shade, but not we're trying to go
So I realized, like, I'm the only one I can save my myself
from this. I haven't created, like, a full on
alcohol addiction. You know, I'm like, a weekend warrior. I
justify a lot of these things I know I can pull my thought self out of it.
So I really dove into
what I know now is shadow work, but before was just the exploration,
this cultivating of my own experience and pulling myself out having the
before I would do the thing,
to understand more about
about what it is I'm doing. Right? And so that opened me up to a
whole world of of shadow work of things like
even astrology, which I got really into, which was super helpful to understand
my own experience in terms of archetype energies that one's working with.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:15
Jessica Depatie 00:10:16
Looking into young,
and see what else came up. The taro
taro is really interesting. You know? I mean,
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:24
Jessica Depatie 00:10:25
look at it from a destination standpoint, which a lot of people wouldn't have
subscribe to. But if you look at it just from an type perspective and seeing how your life
relate to the images that come. It can be a really great way to expand your consciousness.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:38
Yes. I have this my my husband's grandmother,
Jessica Depatie 00:10:43
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:42
reads tear cards, and she reads mine every once in a while.
It's really. It's really fun. I'm like, yes. I'm I'm like, I need it. I need
I I need a couple hours with her to do that though because she
she she loves to go on, and it's she's really fascinating.
Yes. I do love love with you tear.
Something I actually saw going through your Instagram feed,
Jessica Depatie 00:11:04
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:04
I I mean, You know, I was stocking. But I
I noticed that you did a lot of work in campbell.
Jessica Depatie 00:11:08
Yeah. So in this whole exploration of, like,
testing the human experience because, you know,
Now so back in the day, I put myself in a lot of dangerous
situation and I learned from them. And and when doing it unintentionally, I say intention
but I just mean, I put myself there. I didn't have a lot of experiences that happened
at me or to me. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:31
Jessica Depatie 00:11:33
I was a creator of my own experience in the very like textbook way.
Show in this days of life, where I pulled myself out of the mug
out of the trial and air portion. I'm like, okay. How can I actually intentionally
test my edges?
Of the human experience of my own experience in a way that I've
gotten pretty good at doing. I'm
I feel very comfortable in the unknown and well to extent
and with ambiguity. And so combo, which is
for anyone listening that they're not aware of what it is. It's a
secretion from a frog
that leave it down in South America. And you
it was traditionally used for hunting.
It's a non psychedelic medicine, and they will harvest
the excretion from this frog in a very gentle way so it doesn't
create the animal. And then you
do several superficial burns into the top layer of your skin.
So you're not going into the bloodstream. Very quick little
and then you know a facilitator
apply this medicine to these burns sites they call gave.
And in that experience, it
it's really hard. It's like, it cleans out your lymphatic
but the feeling sense of it is getting really, really sick.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:51
Jessica Depatie 00:12:52
Like if you like getting the flu
in the worst way possible for about ten minutes.
So it's really short. Most people will purge
out of their mouse trail lab.
And you're fasting. So you're just throwing up a liquid and need to drink
a certain amount of before, or you'll go to the bathroom later or you'll
sweat. There are a lot of different ways of purge shake. You might cry. And
show, like, why would you even wanna do that? If it's a non losing genetic and you just feel sick? What is the
point other than clean with that system. Well,
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:23
Tell me more.
Jessica Depatie 00:13:24
Yeah. Right. But there's more I promise that just like
It created kind of psychological
You know, it and in doing that, to magic of event all the
clears out your brain of a lot of the the Bs that's been stuck there. It's like,
it's like bio ten hours of meditation in ten minutes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:45
Jessica Depatie 00:13:48
Now you feel it. It's not a good time, but afterwards,
so much clarity in so much space has created between the things that you thought were problems and you're
body. So would okay did... Just kind of
close the loop on that experience night and embodied
kind of practice to go through
because it really ground into the present moment.
So a lot of times, people will do con before they go into ceremony.
For something like Eye because you can be really nervous going into something
Know, you have all these things millions intentions, all these fears, which are
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:22
Jessica Depatie 00:14:20
perfectly normal because it's such a powerful momentum to work with.
Combo and really great thing to do before because it clears you out bringing the present
moment, and it can give you that grounded in.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:33
Now. Amazing. Yeah. I
I'm a huge job for Alex. I
Jessica Depatie 00:14:43
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:43
it alex to my own personal healing. I'm a childhood sexual abuse survivor.
And so for the longest time, I had no idea
what yeah what was wrong with me. I just knew something, you know,
I thought, like, okay. Oh, there's a point where I was by diagnosed by bipolar.
And I was on, like, lithium and all these medications for, like, ten years, and then I was, like,
talk to me about Ptsd and sexual abuse, and I was like,
If you're not a soldier, you still can get Ptsd. Like, I don't understand.
So tell me more. And and
then I realized, like, oh I've been struggling with Ptsd. I went to treatment. I
just so happened to meet several people in the psychedelic underground
and they had helped to me so much
in and really understanding. And I think this is where kinda of the shadow work right. You just
Jessica Depatie 00:15:34
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:36
kind of go into the dark places of your soul.
Where you... If you are able to experience it or
or face it.
Is that it would you say that's where
post traumatic growth
Jessica Depatie 00:15:50
Yeah. That's that's a really good question.
So oh, gosh. We're do gonna start with that?
So your... Your acknowledgement and the Ptsd is really
You know, it it's
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:07
Jessica Depatie 00:16:04
it's interesting to think about a time where that didn't exist.
Pdf and a function is always the included, but
the name for it, The recognition of it didn't really
come about until, like,
their late seventies. So a super reset.
post traumatic growth was also scientifically typically named and more discovered
at the same time. No. You can imagine why
Ptsd really took off in terms of
acknowledgement versus the growth aspect of it, which I'll get into a second.
Which is probably, you know, if I wanna get, like,
real talk about it. It it's
if you make money
keeping people sick. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:46
Jessica Depatie 00:16:48
And show, hey, something
quote that happens to you.
You have Ptsd here's diagnosis.
Now the benefit of that is clearly
these are things that we need to know about because Pt is very, very real.
Super real. Right?
And also the
the acknowledgement that word, but, you know, whatever, like, not
the the possible
psychological benefit of going through the hard thing.
With a sense of agency with the right resources.
Is just here as possible because then, you know,
maybe you can relate to this when you're diagnosed with something.
It that can be crystallize your identity.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:30
Jessica Depatie 00:17:32
And so as we've
picked up the torch on exploring post traumatic growth again.
One of the things that we learned very early on is Ptsd and
post growth, Pt,
happen up can happen at the same time, You know, growth in the linear.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:49
Jessica Depatie 00:17:49
And what is growth even?
That with a huge huge question.
That we had to answer if we wanted to create documentary around growth.
These definitions that are really difficult to explore.
First of all, what is leaving trauma?
And what is gross? We know post it after
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:07
Jessica Depatie 00:18:07
But trauma. Right? There were so many people with different explanations of what it is.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:13
Jessica Depatie 00:18:12
And you've heard things like big trauma and little trauma.
You know, but it's almost like we give a
we put them on a scale, like, little trauma isn't as important as a big t trauma.
Well, if it's important to you, you know paint a pain,
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:25
Jessica Depatie 00:18:26
Right? And that was something that
I still... Like, I even started off this conversation by saying,
Oh, my story. Isn't that interesting.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:34
Jessica Depatie 00:18:34
But they knew, it was very interesting. You know? To me, it
set my life on a trajectory that I'm very grateful for.
But would have been completely different if it didn't exist.
So when we add a a ranking system,
to trauma. I think that's when people can sort of check out of that word.
They don't like to associate with it because I'm not a victim or nothing really bad happened to
me I might be suffering. I might have full blown and Ptsd, but I don't acknowledge it because
I don't have
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:06
Jessica Depatie 00:19:05
this crazy story. And so
the best definition of trauma that
we heard came from again, Anderson Todd.
Who talked about trauma as a kind of
like, when trust is broken,
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:22
Jessica Depatie 00:19:22
you know, I trust, and I'm gonna go through so subconsciously my childhood.
Your example, I I subconsciously trust
I'm not gonna be sexually abused that the people that are around me
care for me, you know, And sure they may be doing their best and they're
they're dealing with life and whatever way possible, but they're not gonna do something that horrible to me.
Trusting broken in that
when dad tells you she's gonna pick you up from Doctor Pat or be at your soccer game.
And he doesn't go over and over and over again.
That is can be traumatic, You know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:53
That it. Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:19:55
Little whatever. But then I become a
I can't trust my dad. I can't trust men. I
can't trust myself. And so
that definition was really helpful moving forward.
And then when we talked about grove. Well,
the that majority I would actually everybody that was in the documentary
also has Ptsd. Right We have veterans that have had
long careers are seeing things that no... None of us will ever see
you know, murder attempt survivors
and they still get
triggered by things. Right? They still feel
serious lows. They still feel like,
things are at times unbearable
But the way that growth works in the way that we've
to find it is an extension of consciousness, which is
senior your experience from many different perspectives being able to feel into life.
In a very full way. And know
was one of the interesting things about this whole thing is that growth doesn't look like the way
a lot of people might or conventional wisdom. My say is.
It's not necessarily affiliated with achievement.
And success and being happy all the time.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:07
Jessica Depatie 00:21:08
Because we're be asking people that have lived experiences of post matter growth that
are now of service. They have turned their message into a message more or less.
A have, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:14
Jessica Depatie 00:21:17
how many deep appreciation for life, they
have meaning and they can see meaning and little things that a lot of people that
haven't acknowledged the adversity in their life had created more wisdom
and all these things, you know, strength, these people that have really identified I push
about a growth person.
They feel everything. So there's this level of sensitivity as well that
not so productive sometimes. You know to go through life like that.
But when you have to be do people be level in, which
they can feel their high on their lows. They're here for all of it.
That one of the things that when we look at the way
so work today. Not totally designed for that kind of person.
But they wouldn't have it any other way.
You know, to be able to have these conversations with people like you.
That are affecting
positively, so many people that have gone through traumatic experiences
you know, if you didn't go through that, then maybe they wouldn't be healing, you know? So there's a
out fact of
working with the material that you've been presented in your past life.
In a way that is
and four, like,
the higher good of of future generations. And so
that's really... Actually, the whole note that we end on in the documentary is
and then the controversial, and it's tricky to say,
without a lot of context, but
we ask the question. Is it a moral responsibility
to acknowledge your trauma to do the shadow work
to go into the dark plane to reclaim the pieces of yourself that's been fragmented.
You know? Because
when we look at the long list of social issues and
environmental issues and
all the things. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:01
Jessica Depatie 00:23:03
We can see that the answers are to them.
Are very short sighted.
Now why is that? You know,
it's likely because the people that are making these decisions, the policymakers makers
politicians to educators,
parents, anybody who has any kind of influence
we all have something that if we're not doing the inner work,
what manifests as our outer life's work, the decisions we make how we show
open in the world
only have... It has a limitation.
So perhaps it is our more responsibility
you really look at the things that have happened to us and for us
so I wanted to be cliche about it.
For future generation.
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:44
I absolutely. I love that question. I I and
for me, the answer is yes. Right? I
you know, you know in in my
June issue of authentic insider,
a woman writes about by curious resilience.
And I feel like
when you hear other people's stories when you, you know,
other other people
it helped other people want to start healing because to be honest,
before I actually started my healing journey, I'm I'm like,
If you told me about post traumatic growth, I thought I would think you were full of shit.
Jessica Depatie 00:24:20
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:22
Like, no. This is my life. This is who I am.
Now I'm supposed to be sad a lot of most of my life and this is this is it.
Because I had
it just couldn't. I could not
understand anything other than what I was living in.
Until I hit, like, rock bottom, and then I had to go into treatment.
But it was
I feel like
once I actually explore, I like really, really try to resist
exploring those dark places. I never
in twenty twenty. At, twenty twenty was the first time he even, like, utter the word
Jessica Depatie 00:25:00
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:59
sexual abuse. And I think for for me,
as it pertain to mean because I was sexually abused by my father, which
has its own
you know, layers of
Jessica Depatie 00:25:09
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:11
shit. You don't wanna go into. But
it was... One time is able to go into it though.
Once I was able to talk about it, the first time I actually talked about in a group of people
they were like,
they came to a couple of them came to me, and the really like that actually happened to me. I haven't talked
about it. Even though they had been in this treatment center that I was in for
probably a month longer than I was.
When they were able to start talking about what happened to them, and then that was when, like,
their healing process and their ability to move out of this treatment center.
Started accelerating. So it was... It's it's
I do believe that there is
once we've gone to this place once we've
achieved post growth, I guess,
I feel like, yes. There there's
there's a responsibility there.
To tell your story
But that's just me.
Jessica Depatie 00:26:04
Thank you so much for sharing that. That is
like, a really remarkable story of
of resilient, you know, and I'm so glad that you brought up
hitting your rock bottom and that being the thing that
that woke you up to the kind of work.
You know, what's interesting about that is a lot of people are living in a
like, a lot of people don't hit a kind of rock bottom that wakes them up.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:30
Jessica Depatie 00:26:31
Which I think why a lot of people do like delegate, like, I just have this
hovering dirt cloud of
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:38
Jessica Depatie 00:26:38
a shit. Getting mean like, this feeling of you know, unpleasant. That's just
covering around. And so maybe can work, and it shows you
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:46
Jessica Depatie 00:26:47
all the things you've been tolerated. Right? Is show your
you'll you can feel like your at rock bottom in a way that you've facilitated for yourself.
And I think that that is one of the
flaws in our in the way anxiety is
and it built today is, like, there's so many ways to distract you from having a rock
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:04
Jessica Depatie 00:27:07
got a moment. So people that, like yourself, and a lot of people that I've
talk to in the research of this project.
intense traumatic experience that
the rock bottoms that the hit are remarkable. Right?
They can experience the post traumatic growth and
also, then remarkable ways because they've seen a version of themselves. They've
that is unbearable.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:30
Jessica Depatie 00:27:33
Right? Now for your
I don't know. I guess you're get average person.
Still having traumatic experience
but, you know, I can distract myself with Netflix or shopping or working out or all these
things or dating apps or jumping from relationship to relationship.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:52
Jessica Depatie 00:27:51
So I never feel that rock bottom. You know, all this convenience that we have in our life.
That is supposed to keep us quote happy, but just
keep those more or less from experiencing that dark night of our soul, And that's not to see that we don't
see hints of it.
We don't see hints of
you know, laying in Bed at night,
mean, like, what is what is all of that?
Got a change, but then, you know, maybe I'll literally listen into a podcast to go to sleep into having these thoughts.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:16
Jessica Depatie 00:28:16
So, you know, the title, the documentary night of Our is
called action more or less.
To stop distracting yourself and to just contemplate
what is hiding in your own underworld?
So that you don't have to hit a rock bottom.
Because, you know, we can keep them
hovering and employment pleasant our whole lives and
the rock bottom might be, and I hate to be the girl talk about it.
But, you know, when we're older, hopefully, we get to that point living a long life.
Being the deathbed bed and that being
perhaps you rock about a moment of, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:52
Jessica Depatie 00:28:50
I should've have... I should've have looked at all that. You know, I I
I had all these relationships that were right there in front of my face, but I was
not able to love enough because I wasn't able to, like, reclaim the person of myself that made me feel like me
maybe feel like me for the first time.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:06
When I say
Jessica Depatie 00:29:11
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:13
go. Go ahead.
Jessica Depatie 00:29:14
Just gonna conclude there that
And, even when I say this, I get a little bit emotional because
I really feel the impact of this work.
Lies on our generation shoulders.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:28
Jessica Depatie 00:29:28
You know, because we're coming to a present around
the level of
depression that the world, like on a global scale
don't have the number, but it's like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:42
Jessica Depatie 00:29:41
a lot of people, you know, it's like, one in three people
and we'll have some kind of diagnosing
mental disorder that can be preventable by
looking at some of the material that has created these coping mechanisms that
have then become visual. I mean, we even look at hoard,
there's something like
eighteen million orders just in the at. I don't know if that number is true or not. But
that's that is wondering specific.
Like manifestation of a group of people that
have perhaps unresolved trauma
you know, that just the numbers are huge, and when we look at the ways that we are coping
consumer in them, it's destroying our planet and
I don't know what the timeline is for that.
you know, what world are we leaving for our kids? So... Yeah. The
this field like it feels like important work.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:35
If it is an important work, I absolutely agree.
And, you know, going back to, you know, this idea of like, little key trauma. Right? I feel like people
the majority of people who just kind of live in that
Jessica Depatie 00:30:50
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:50
space of... I'm just dealing and dealing
and dealing. I feel like they've dealt with little trauma
and because they have dealt with big g trauma, they don't think that
there's anything that they need to explore. And I think that that's also
why we need to
make people more aware that, like, little t trauma is trauma.
not exploring it.
Can be a problem. And, yeah... It's so easy to
distract herself like you said with so much
And, you know, for me, I I I just couldn't
right? I had children that were triggering me. Never it was just like, oh my gosh. My daughter is reminding me
these moments that I don't wanna relive and I need
just need to go away. But
Jessica Depatie 00:31:35
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:37
you know, what's nice about being able to have also
know going back to what we were talking about exploring, you know, is it our
responsibility to explore those dark places. I really feel it, like,
if I didn't, I don't know what would be there for my daughter.
Because my daughter, my son, I... I think my son benefited to the most the youngest, so he's
see me... He's been with me more since my healing, my daughter has seen both sides of
me and it's been really, you know, I can see how it's been difficult
quote for her. Like, my son can
Jessica Depatie 00:32:06
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:10
is is I feel like ken easily, you know,
take a breath, and my daughter is more like me.
You know, prior to treatment when, you know, if my husband was to say,
you can you take a breath? Can you breathe? I'd be like, yep.
I don't want to. You know? So that... You know, because that's who I was. I was very much
I like, no. I nothing's gonna help. Leave me alone.
And then, you know, coming out of treatment, it was like,
this this is stuff that actually works when I was... When I was at my treatment center, they actually
we they did bio and you can see, like, what breathing action
we did when you actually took deep breaths and you saw, like,
your you your energy. It was just... It was amazing. And it would... It made it
more concrete for me to help my children
Jessica Depatie 00:32:57
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:59
be able to manage these stress by
simply taking a breath or really talking about what happened.
Jessica Depatie 00:33:08
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:08
In their day. And I think
just just exploring it that way and being okay with
the bad stuff and being okay with it.
Jessica Depatie 00:33:16
Oh, for sure, You know,
like, having kids, I I don't have any kids myself, but
talking to you one of the other
experts in our film,
Doctor Tru who's the resilience researcher.
And he was talking about the the other things we often talk about Trauma think
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:37
Jessica Depatie 00:33:36
that are bad. Right? But they can also be things that are good
but you're different on the other side of it. You know? Having kids is a really great example of that,
can be dramatic. Like, just changing in her whole life, you know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:50
Jessica Depatie 00:33:51
And things That didn't bother you before
you know, are, like, all of a sudden important and require attention
and things used enjoy, the whole snow globe of your brain gets chuck.
Shaken up. Winning the lottery is another good example. A lot people win the lottery that's good.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:11
Jessica Depatie 00:34:07
Can be also be out there's like a whole bunch of other things that pop up as a result of that.
to your point about, you know, your relationship with your daughter being a little bit different than your relationship to your son.
Would I wanted to also add in there around this moral responsibility do the work?
it also saying that
it's not your responsibility or it's not a
you should heal because it
that that's where things get tricky. You know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:37
Jessica Depatie 00:34:37
Okay. To be somebody's bad day.
this is... Like, we have to subscribe
in some way to surrendering to the way life
like, things will make sense at some point. You know?
The weird part of this complex
fabric of the way the universe is tied together.
So we can look at
like, my mom, for example, she
after starting this work, she was feeling like a lot of shame
around her themselves. And
by transferring her own unresolved trauma on me, you know, this
sense of unacceptable and rejection.
That I talk about often when I go podcast and on my own show,
and she's like, god I if I just
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:27
Jessica Depatie 00:35:28
have worked on that earlier in my life because she's working on it now.
You wouldn't have that You wouldn't have to go through any of this. I'm, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:34
Jessica Depatie 00:35:35
Yeah. I did I did suffer
but I'm so
grateful for the way that I dealt with that and the other
the bit of agency that you did in still me that I can change
because that's one of the big things around this kind of work.
Sense of agency. You know, I did
I wouldn't be doing this at all. I don't know where I'd be. What I'd be doing that I love what I do now.
You know so we can look at our children, let's say, you know, for anybody listening that
has had a two phases life? You know, one child experienced a version that
you were proud of
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:05
Jessica Depatie 00:36:08
you know? But that can turn into something
remarkable that we have no idea.
To the only thing I think... Well,
I don't think this is from research
post growth research. That has come
out of the wave of Covid, considering the whole world went
through a collective trauma in many different facets, whether that was
extreme family deaths, of fear of government
you know, control, like, any way, which way people
are different on the other side of this. Right? It comes up with conversation often. Families
are looking a lot different. The way people go out public can be different.
A lot of friendships were dissolved for different, you know,
value noncitizens that were conflicting that just weren't able to be resolved.
So this new wave of research has shown that
Okay. Is what set somebody up for post traumatic growth.
You know, what can we help instill in our children? If
they are going through it art are are going to go through it because we all kinda do
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:04
Jessica Depatie 00:37:07
There's no difference in extra version or introversion really
the benefit of being more of an extrovert type is that
like, the ability to share your story with other people
and to bring in people into your own experience like you were talking about when you're in treatment,
when you shared, it was really helpful. You're able to get feedback
and you put in distance between your own inner world and, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:30
Jessica Depatie 00:37:29
And you, you know, you put it out there, you you brought light to it.
The benefit of being more introverted and you may have a
more like, colorful inner world.
To contemplate why things have happened.
But there is a difference between open
and a lack of open there, we were gonna to look at the big five scale.
Openness this to new experiences.
Is one of the markers of
post growth in terms of personality.
So that's where we can start talking about in
working with our kids or working with ourselves. I'll talk
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:06
Jessica Depatie 00:38:09
One of the topics I we explore here is intentionally facilitated post growth.
Which is a big concept to jump from
Did you know you have trauma to You can intentionally facilitate your own. Right?
Like, had a lot of ground to cover there.
But the point is to build capacity
So the more new experience that you put yourself in,
the more you can subconsciously realize that
I am capable and you collect more data around what you
can get through. So I think that's why people like working out.
In ways that are more intense like hit or traveling
or meeting new people or doing psychedelics.
Right? Like, the more experiences you can put yourself into, the more
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:52
Jessica Depatie 00:38:50
waiting you can expand your capacity to be in them.
Showing worked with our kids, and we show them that you can be different.
Hear some ways that you can be different, whether that's helping them go into sports, like,
group sports is one kind of thing or if they're more of a solo person, like Martial Arts,
but really helping them intentionally test some of those edges
In a more micro capacity.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:13
Jessica Depatie 00:39:13
So that when you get the flood dose of adversity,
is gonna happen at some point.
It's like, oh, yeah. I've been... I've been training for this.
And then okay.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:22
Wow. Yes. And you know, it's it
reminds me of a
a really great quote from someone that I interviewed a while ago he was an
Jessica Depatie 00:39:33
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:33
shell former Nhl player, Dave Scattered. He after I think was a
sith can ca heat. It was, like oh it was a near fatal concussion in humans, like,
in his thirties getting dementia.
he told me because he said he's been his whole life just like this happy guy, like everything
everything was kind of, you know, he's working hard doing, you know, achieving things.
And then once you hit that, that
that that can got that fit concussion and nearly died.
You know, he and he was suffering and he realized, like,
he said that god came to him when he was like,
ready to just throw in the towel, and he was... He was ready to take in no life.
Said you said he's like,
he spoke to me, and he said that I I needed you to go through what you had
Jessica Depatie 00:40:25
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:24
go through so you can help the people that you're going to help. Because
he was saying that, you know,
you know, there's a before that had happened, she'd be like,
Oh, just suck it up. Just... You know, you broke your arm. You you know, you broke your whatever
a teeth. You just, you know, just get up and let's do. Let's just do
right. It's like, let's let's go. But he said that he had to go through the suffering to
really understand what it was like,
to be able to help other people because now he is a coach.
He's he's a life coach. He's a for for
for athletes to, you know,
a and so he
he had to understand. The only way he could understand other people suffering was
going through the veterans himself because that he was just
ready to give up and I just thought that was
just an amazing way to look at it, like,
right right now, like,
I mean, I'm I don't know who I would be if
all the things that happened to me,
Like you were saying,
Jessica Depatie 00:41:22
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:26
but but I'm happy where I am now.
Jessica Depatie 00:41:27
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:29
And so I think that's that's that's that's the growth. That's the
that's the growth there.
Jessica Depatie 00:41:35
Yeah. I'm so glad he brought up.
You know, a former athlete, like, that is
that performer type
you know, we we were glove was better and then first,
first responders, Ashley also fall into that category
People that have, like, grip
Right? And they're used to.
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:58
Jessica Depatie 00:42:00
Practice and training to present something, whether that's
to present themselves perfectly more or less in the arena of sport.
Or on the battlefield or in business. And
one of the interesting bits of research that we came across is that
you can go from
You don't have to be
So talking to vitality right now,
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:25
Jessica Depatie 00:42:26
which is the ultimate, like,
lack of agency getting to the point of, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:36
Jessica Depatie 00:42:33
I can't change and this is it and then pulling the plug on your experience.
So we wanted to study that to see what is the ultimate
giving up moment. Right? When people are like, there is no growth
left for me, The only way is this way.
there's bit of research that we found show that there... You can go from
being perfectly quote, okay.
Suicide Value fairly quickly, when you have committed yourself to
a lack of being able to change. And so I bring up performers because
especially prevalent in that kind of archetype.
Which I would consider myself to fall into as well.
Which is like a bit of a failed hero story.
You know, my whole life
nurtured to perform him and to show up and all these things
and at a point where, like, let
say this gentleman,
gets traumatic brain injury to the point where he is just, like, super different on the other side of that.
The things that he valued above everything else likely was
the the entertainment, the the joy that he brought through his
his work. Right? And now that's gone,
Who am I even?
Lorilee Binstock 00:43:46
Jessica Depatie 00:43:48
And so a big part of the
doing this work is
You know, like, we go back to what is growth even,
not being happy all the time.
But it doesn't mean
feeling joy and you're sorrow.
Feeling the okay and being wherever you're at. So
I can really relate to that story because I haven't experienced
traumatic brain injury myself, but I was married to a
Jeff Pop is also of the producer of this documentary
he has traumatic brain injury. And when that started to flare up, it was
unbearable to him. And to me,
Lorilee Binstock 00:44:25
Jessica Depatie 00:44:27
the emotional wave, the
all the things that come with that. And because of the brain injury, it makes it a little bit
tricky to work with. You know, the healing process on physiological
like, in in terms of how your body heals, it it's
kind different than a lot of the other psychological wounds that can happen.
for him to acknowledge grace
what he felt to be weak, not being able to show up.
Not being able to be the husband that he wanted to be
being ind incapacitated at moment.
Not being able to reach out to people
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:08
Jessica Depatie 00:45:04
like, without that great, then he don't get me wrong. He had moment of, like, no grade. They just like this
is horrible, and I don't know what to do with my myself anymore.
But that with
with what would be
identified as the weakness for a performer is
super super huge, and it takes time.
And yeah, what is Grace even? Like,
that this is all part of it.
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:31
Jessica Depatie 00:45:31
Right. So below the
the coming to Jesus moment, like, that's what those load can be.
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:38
Jessica Depatie 00:45:39
And it's hard when you're in those
in your rock bottom, I don't know if there's a lot of work to be done there.
Like, when you're really going through it and you're feeling everything,
I think the strategy there is to breathe and write it out.
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:53
Jessica Depatie 00:45:53
But when you come back into a point of neutrality, that's where I think the work begins is
the contemplation of, like, what was that?
Where did that come from? You know, now that of space instead of just going right back
to twice me like, okay. Well I'm good again. You know, I'm just gonna ignore that that happened.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:08
Jessica Depatie 00:46:09
That's where you put in the wraps.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:12
Right. I agree. I agree. It was... You know, when you're in it,
there's really not much you can do.
Jessica Depatie 00:46:16
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:19
You're just you're you're... You just... I feel like you can just go down.
Right? Like, I felt like that I was just going down my rabbit hole when I hit the rock bottom and I was
just like, there's nothing for me.
Jessica Depatie 00:46:27
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:31
Luckily, I had my husband who was like, okay. You can do this. We're gonna do this.
Jessica Depatie 00:46:31
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:35
We're gonna do this. But
Yeah. It was... You know, I I I
I do... And I know that this
likely the purpose of your your documentary, but
to let will know that, you know, post traumatic growth
is achievable people, it's... You know,
And and I feel like, I I can't stress that enough because I was there.
I was there. I was there what I was just like, this is who I am. There's no there's no way out of
Jessica Depatie 00:47:02
Lorilee Binstock 00:47:02
this. And I think
that there's nothing more
then I want to share then
it is a possibility. There's it's there.
Jessica Depatie 00:47:13
Exactly. That is so well said it is the possibility because
one very easy route we could gone down with this that would made my
a lot easier it may, like, here, the five steps the post traumatic gross,
you know, like, Youtube can be healed, but it
so not that. Like, this whole film is really one messenger
know, the answers that you get are only gonna come within yourself.
So it's... It's presented in a very poetic way.
And we're really, really careful to not say that it is
Let gonna say that.
Just to know that it is an option.
To believe that it is an option.
Is the biggest and leap of faith you can take.
Lorilee Binstock 00:47:59
Jessica Depatie 00:48:01
There's no actual work that you have to do
in terms of
by the end of this film, I mean, Like, there's no actual, like,
you have to go see a therapist. Do you have to do psychedelics? You have to have to have
do in order to heal, what you have to do is just know that it's possible
and to just open your mind to whatever comes in. So
one of the major themes or I methodologies that we follow is
young in psychology throughout that.
And the way that
that's presented is a very gentle, like,
awareness in an opening process.
Everybody's experience different. Everybody's mode of healing will be different.
That's why we're a solution agnostic kind of organization because
going into treatment center it may be perfect for you. To give the guitar, maybe all that you need.
learning how to cook maybe everything.
So to pinpoint exactly what needs to happen, what do I do now?
Is not our responsibility to tell you what to do because that would just be
Lorilee Binstock 00:49:06
Jessica Depatie 00:49:03
impossible and, like, irresponsible on our end. Right? Behold
I don't wanna be the person that's like, well, just do what I did. If
and it'll work for you at might.
This is where we pass agency to the viewer, like,
your own intuition will let you know, follow the clues in your life.
Lorilee Binstock 00:49:21
Jessica Depatie 00:49:24
And here are through of the mythology that shows you that post growth is
throughout of human history. Here the bio reasons why
grows after trauma is actually probable not just possible.
And here's all the proof around why this is
actually a thing and not just some random phenomenon that happens to people that like, are lucky enough
you know, catch the post matter growth bug.
Lorilee Binstock 00:49:49
Wow, Amazing. I mean, I can talk to you all day. I really could.
Jessica Depatie 00:49:51
I know. That'd be great.
Twenty four hour podcast.
Lorilee Binstock 00:49:56
I know. Right. But we do have to wrap it up.
But I do want to ask if you have anything that you would like to add
Jessica Depatie 00:50:05
Well, I think I got through all the
the juicy bit of the documentary, but we are running a kickstarter
right now until the end of June,
a little bit in the July, we're using fun to help us
finish the film. So right now, if you donate eat fifteen bucks to the kick
started. You can watch a short version of the film, which is thirty minutes, and it's very good.
Have same else.
Lorilee Binstock 00:50:26
I I love the trailers.
The trailer was amazing. I I I was like, I need more. So, yes,
Jessica Depatie 00:50:31
Thank you. We'll, also I you the link. Else send need a link to watch it.
For anybody listening, yeah, the donation goes towards helping us finish it.
And we just actually partnered with this fantastic director out of Hollywood.
That is going to be editing our full film and just make it
primed for for math media
you know, like, that was one thing that in doing this process, we realized we have some limitations around
Lorilee Binstock 00:50:56
Jessica Depatie 00:50:57
You know? And and what is too complicated? So we... Like
I love this so much.
I'm gonna set you up with the connections as distributors and all the things
that you guys don't have right now, and I wanna edit it so the people really... So really not
people locked up. So that wasn't in
huge huge miracle for us. And, yeah.
Any fun that
are donated, go towards helping fish edit. But
it goes towards helping us create an past campaigns to the ones the film is finished, we can take
to correctional facilities and addiction centers and to
Lorilee Binstock 00:51:34
Jessica Depatie 00:51:34
like colleges and, yeah.
To help for the word of post growth rays wear in it.
Around of possibility
for people that either need it the most or to make the most impact. And usually, those are the same
Lorilee Binstock 00:51:46
I really. I love that. I love going. The this idea of going to
those places and and having them be able to
for this idea of post growth. So incredible. And, you know, there's a
scrolling fortune cookie right there on your screen.
And I will also have in the show notes that you can go to that kickstarter right there.
Jessica Depatie 00:52:11
Beautiful. Thank you so much for having Me on, this have been really fun.
Lorilee Binstock 00:52:12
Jessica Depatie 00:52:15
Love that you on my show too. One of these days. Let's up that up.
Lorilee Binstock 00:52:17
Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Jessica I really appreciated.
That was Jessica good to pat shadow work educator host
of the shadow work library podcast and the executive producer.
Of the documentary dark night of our soul for more information on Jessica,
click on that scrolling fortune cookie right there on your screen.
You... It'll will also be in the show notes anywhere you get your podcast.
Also, June issue of authentic insider is out check out out
to insider at trauma thrive dot com that trauma survivor
We will be back next week and with episode one hundred,
You can join me live when I speak with Erin Johnson about
mental health and marginalized communities. Next week it's gonna be on a different day. Same
time though, it's gonna be on Tuesday, June thirteenth.
Please join me.
You've been listening to A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.
I'm Lorilee Binstock. Thanks again for being a part of the conversation.